Magnesium metal is used in manufacturing across a wide range of industries. It can be found in items that we rely on every day such as car seats, laptops, cameras, and power tools that benefit from being lightweight. According to Research and Markets, the market for metal magnesium is expected to grow at a compound annual growth rate of more than 4% globally by 2026. What this says is that magnesium metal is here to stay, so it’s important to know how to both safely handle magnesium while working with it and how to properly dispose of it and its waste after. This is where dust collection comes into play.
Hazards of Magnesium Metal Dust
Magnesium is an excellent conductor in heat and easily ignites, therefore it must not only be handled with care – it must also be cleaned up with care. While solid magnesium metal may be difficult to ignite, finely ground magnesium dust is “ready ignitable” and can even spontaneously ignite in the presence of water or cutting fluids containing fatty acids. Machining or sawing magnesium can create this airborne dust and grinding residue that can hang in the air and settle throughout the workplace.
Given that it will burn and explode with violence if ignited, it’s imperative that non-sparking conductive tools be used where magnesium metal dust is present. Any smoking, open flames or electrical welding must also be forbidden in places where magnesium is machined, sawed, or ground.
Why Proper Dust Collection is Important
If left to collect on workspaces and equipment, a magnesium metal dust explosion is waiting to happen. Sparks from any source can ignite the substance and the resulting fire can quickly travel. To make matters worse, there is typically more than one explosion as the initial explosion often shakes more accumulated dust that in turn ignites. OSHA says that these later explosions can be far more devastating due to the increased quantity and concentration of dispersed combustible dust.
The danger of having magnesium dust in the workplace is severe, so its handling should be treated as such. According to the International Magnesium Association, grinding dust should be captured in a wet dust collector system that is engineered for magnesium and dedicated to magnesium use only.
Avoid a Dust Explosion with Proper Magnesium Metal Dust Control
Exposure to dust and gasses in factories can be hazardous to workers’ health. Furthermore, flammable dust produces an environment conducive to a fire or explosion. This is especially true for magnesium metal, whose use in manufacturing is expected to rise in the coming years. When working with magnesium metal, make sure that you’re keeping a safe and compliant workspace by monitoring dust collection. It is the only way to ensure the health and safety of everyone when working with a metal that produces a highly flammable, easily ignitable dust by-product.
Consult the Dust Collection Professionals
Make sure the company that constructs and installs your dust collecting system is familiar with and can explain all of the required fire safety equipment to you. Another crucial safety tip is to ensure that the equipment is in good operating order via ongoing monitoring. This involves changing the filters as needed and inspecting and maintaining the collector on a regular basis.
Imperial Systems will work will your business and application to advise you on the safest option for your magnesium dust. We can help you determine what will make your system NFPA compliant, whether it’s our heavy-duty CMAXX Dust & Fume Collector for dry dust or pointing you in the right direction for a wet collection alternative.
If you would like a hands-on education in dust collector maintenance, our ServiceMAXX team can pay a visit and help you establish a maintenance schedule.
Charlie Miller meets us for another Campfire Chat. This time Charlie talks about his years in the industry and some of the nasty dirty jobs he has had quote on and measure. Some of those jobs goes back to his days of living in Cincinnati and visiting meat packing plants or going to a waste treatment plant. Check out this podcast to hear more about these dirty jobs.
Intro: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems. Industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
Donovan: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Today we have a very special edition with Charlie Miller. Charlie has been a long time employee of Imperial Systems, and used to write for our newsletter, the Dusty Jobs Newsletter, with an article called ‘Good Luck With That’. Charlie’s article reflects on his time in the industry with fun stories. Now we’re going to move that into the podcast realm. Charlie is now going to be doing Campfire Chats. We hope you enjoy these stories from Charlie Miller. Thanks for joining us.
Charlie:
Hi everyone, welcome back to Camp Imperial.
Pull your camp chair up next to the fire,grab a hot dog to roast, and sit a spell for another campfire chat.
Anyone a Mike Rowe fan? He had a TV show called Dirty Jobs. On each episode he would take us to some of the nastiest jobs you can imagine .
Who begins life saying the want to be a garbage collector or city sewage worker when they grow up? These are nasty jobs, and somebody had to do them. But sometimes these undesirable jobs can be very profitable. Let’s face it , dust collection is all about cleaning up in dirty places and over the years I have visited some nasty places.
I spent a large part of my career in Cincinnati, Ohio. Many people don’t know this but at one time in the early years Cincinnati was known as “Porkopolis”. One of Cincinnati’s earliest enterprises was a meat packing center. The Pig Farmers would drive their hogs right through the center of town to the stock yards. Legend has it that Cincinnati is where the phrase “When Pigs Fly” originated. Truth is the folks in Cincinnati are proud of their Porkopolis heritage and play tribute to the Flying Pigs that helped to make them a major metropolis area. If you look hard enough, you can find tributes to flying pigs everywhere in Cincinnati. (Watch out, there goes one now! They’re cute little fellows but you got to be careful about their droppings)
The stock yards are still there, and meat packing is still one of the major businesses in Cincinnati. I once had to visit one. They wanted a stainless-steel hood and exhaust system installed over a large meat fryer. The fryer was in a room that had about 50 gutted hogs hanging from overhead conveyor hooks. The pigs were split open but still had their head and feet. I had to maneuver around these dead pigs to get my measurements done. Not only a nasty job but creepy as well. I’m glad they gave me the white coat and hat to wear. I couldn’t wait to get out of that room. I did get the order though. My customer asked me to come back on Wednesday. I asked why and he told me Wednesdaywas slaughter day. I declined the offer.
Speaking of meat packers have you ever wondered how they make skinless wieners. I was called into another meat packer who made them. The wieners start out as a bunch or finely ground up pinkish-gray mystery meat to which is added a bunch of nitrates and preservatives. (EUW! Throw away hotdog)This pinkish meat mush is then injected into a continuous sleeve that is twisted every 4 of 5 inches to form the wiener. This continuous string of wieners then goes through a cooker that solidifies the wiener into the form we see in the store. After exiting the cooker, the sleeve is slit longitudinally allowing the wieners to separate and fall out sending them to packaging, while the slit sleeve, still dripping with juices from the cooking process, is sent to waste.
That was why I was there. The wet sleeve went through a chopper and then sent outside to a cyclone receiver over a compactor. The cyclone was wearing out and had to be replaced. Since there was no information on the cyclone, I once again had to field measure it. It was the middle of Julyand the discarded sleeve material that was already collected in the compactor had turned rancid in the summer heat. It also attracted a bunch if bees that were swarming around the cyclone I had to measure. It just goes to show that our food suppliers can have nasty jobs too.
Have you ever wondered where all the roadkill animals you see along the highways go to? After they are picked up by the highway department, many of them are sent to a rendering plant, commonly known as the glue factory. While glue is one of the byproducts from rendered animals, many other common productsbegin with organically rendered materials including : pet foods, lubricants, soap, shampoo, paint, elastomers and even explosives. Did you know gelatin deserts are made from rendered animal bones?While rendered organics are recycled into many useful products, visiting one of these facilities is not a pleasant experience. Along with dead animals, many other organics materials are rendered including rancid cooking grease collected from restaurants that are thrown into a big vat for processing. The odor is horrendous. One visit is enough to ask for a pay raise .
Coming in a close second to rendering plants are chicken processing plants.Have you ever driven by one in the summer? It makes you think twice about dining at the colonel’s house.
Another place with similar attributes is the good old Metropolitan Sewage Plant. This is the place where all the toilets flush to. Can you imagine what it is like to do work there?The MSD was one of my regular clients and I affectionately referred to them as “The Turd Grinder”. One memorable job I was involved with was to make and install stainless steel drip pans under the miles of overhead process pipes running throughout the sewage plant. Understandably the sewage workers did not want any of that stuff leaking on them should a pipe joint spring a leak. It was a nasty place to visit but I’ve been told some funny tales from the workers. You would be surprised at some of the things people flush down their toilets. And the people who work here have seen it all.
Chemical plants have their own nasty characteristics to cope with. A large petrochemical plant along the banks of the Ohio River has miles of large stainless-steel duct that runs throughout its various production buildings. This duct system is about 20 feet above ground level so traffic can drive beneath, and it is used to transfers waste to a centralized filter. They call it their “Sewer in the Sky”.Periodically sections of the duct would corrode from the materials being conveyedand need to be replaced. This usually required specialized clothing and respirator masks to be worn when replacing the duct. In mid-summer working from elevated man lifts in the hot protective gear is not much fun.
Another chemical company I did some work for made AcetysalicylicAcid, which is better known as Aspirin. They had one multi-story building with a large enclosure in thecenter where the acid was condensed into a usable form. Over time condensed residue would build up and solidify on the inside of the enclosure wall panels causing themto deform. The ductwork would also clog with the same material which required both the panels and duct to be periodic replaced. Every few years I would go into that building to field measure the panels and duct that needed replaced. Aspirin is a beneficial pain and fever reducer. But in the condensation process a fume is generated which caused my eyes to water and burn within minutes. I would often need to leave the area just to clear my eyes of tears. It amazed me that people could work in that building every day.
Chemical companies are not the only places that will cause your eyes to water. Going into some food processing plants will cause the same problem. I once visited a spice plant that was making hot sauce. They had a 1500-gallon vat where they cooked the hot peppers and other ingredients to make the sauce. The top of the vat was covered with a canopy hood and ducted to a roof mounted exhaust fan that disbursed the cooking fume up into the atmosphere. They called me because they needed a replacement exhaust fan and had no idea what volume or horsepower they needed. To determine this, I had to visit the plant to examine the fan. The stairway up to the roof was in the same room that housed the cooking vat. By the time I reached the top of the stairs, tears were streaming from my eyes. After inspecting the fan name plate, I was able to determine the volume and horsepower requirements for the replacement. The fan was badly corroded, and I assumed it to be very old, but I could tell it had a stainless-steel housing. I told them I could get them a stainless-steel replacement fan but they told me I needed to supply something better than stainless steel. The fan I was replacing was less than two years old. That was some serious hot sauce!
I had a similar experience at a mustard company where horse radish sauce was one of their products. In the horse radish room several workers sorted the roots by hand andfed them into a washing process. From there they were fed into a machine that finely grated the root to be made into the sauce. Tubs of ground horse radish was stacked in carts around the room awaiting the next stage of production. My eyes watered immediately upon entering the room. Except for a single wall mounted panel fan this room had no ventilation at all. Little wonder the workers were crying for one.
Perhaps the dirtiest places I’ve visited are coal generation power plant. These plants are full of conveyor belts shuffling coal from one transfer tower to another and creating a coal dust nightmare. Even with a well-designed dust collection system it is all but impossible not to come out of a transfer tower without having black coal duct on your clothes. I once visited a power plant with a co-worker to see what we would need to do to install a dust collector on the top of a coal transfer tower. We knew we would need a large crane to set the equipment. The tower was nearly 80 feet tall. There was a rigging company nearby, so we decided to stop in after we left the power plant to see if they could help. Before we left, we used the compressed air hose provided to blow the coal dust off our clothes. Satisfied with our cleaning efforts we drove over to the rigging company. We entered the building and crossed the lobby to the receptionist desk. Shegreeted uscoldly and told us no one was currently in the office who could help us. We wondered what we did to offend her.When we turned to leave, we saw two tracks of black footprints across the lobby carpet leading right up to where we stood. Who puts light beige carpet in the lobby of a building anyway?
I’m rarely required to visit nasty places anymore but it you think I miss it, well good luck with that!
Thanks for visiting and come back again soon for another campfire chat.
Donovan: Thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed this time listening to Charlie’s stories. If you’re interested in hearing more of them, you can go read Charlie’s article ‘Good Luck With That’ on our website. If you’re interested in more podcasts or more information, you can follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and most other social media platforms. Thanks for listening. Stay healthy, and stay safe.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Breathe better, work safer.
As with most industrial manufacturing processes, metalworking generates dust that you must deal with. But metal dust can have unique properties which make it especially dangerous. Metal fires in dust collectors are not unusual and can certainly explode. Let’s discuss why metal fires start as well as what you can and must do for fire safety in metalworking environments. Then we’ll cover what to do (and not do) in a real metal fire emergency.
Flammable Metals in the Workplace
Fires with burning metal are categorized as Class D fires. To begin with, all of the alkaline metals in their solid state will burn easily, even spontaneously combust at low temperatures. Some examples are sodium, lithium, rubidium, and potassium. Then there are a few other metals like titanium and magnesium which in solid form ignite only under extreme heat. But once ignited, they can quickly and easily spread into a very dangerous and destructive fire.
The most common industrially used metals in Class D metal fires are aluminum, magnesium, and titanium. Therefore, these metals in dust form are extremely hazardous in dust collection systems. However, most metals in a fine dust form can ignite and produce dangerous situations in confined dust collector systems. The finer the dust, the more likely it is to burn.
Common Metal Fire Causes
Most Class D metal fires occur from processes that create metal dust like cutting, drilling, and grinding. These can produce metal dust fine enough for combustion. As mentioned, a common metal used in manufacturing is aluminum. In its solid form, or even as larger chips created by manufacturing processes, aluminum can remain inert. But finer aluminum dust can be highly explosive when exposed to oxygen and an ignition source.
Metal dust collection should never be mixed with other materials or dissimilar metals. For example, metal dust should never be combined with a wood dust application. A simple spark can easily ignite wood dust, causing a potentially dangerous metal dust explosion.
Aluminum dust should never be combined with a ferrous metal dust system. Machining of ferrous metals can create sparks resulting in a metal dust explosion. Ferrous metal dust (iron) can quickly oxidize. It will create sufficient heat to spontaneously combust. Aluminum dust can also react with water to form highly flammable and explosive hydrogen gas.
Fire Safety Starting Point
When setting up a metalworking operation in your plant, you’ll need an evaluation assessment. Make the first call to your insurance company as they want to make sure that the plant is safe. They usually require that a third party come to your facility to perform an evaluation. The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) now requires a risk analysis.
They’ll identify the minimum requirements and develop a plan to meet them. In their report, they’ll tell you what issues to address and what steps to take to resolve them. This will include everything from equipment requirements to employee safety training.
Dust Collection System Design for Fire Safety
There are important considerations in selecting and configuring a dust collector for a metalworking application to ensure fire safety. But before we can start looking at any equipment or options, we need to collect some data.
Dust Sample Analysis
The dust collector supplier needs a good, representative sample of what will go through the dust collector. That’s for analysis to determine how flammable it is and what the Kst value is. The higher the Kst, the more explosive it is. Metal dust types with high Kst values are very volatile and very dangerous. With this report and information about the challenges of the application from the customer, the dust collection system design can begin.
AHJ Collaboration
AHJ stands for authority having jurisdiction. You will need an AHJ to approve the dust collection system you’re submitting for installation. The NFPA defines an AHJ as an organization, office, or individual responsible for enforcing the requirements of a code or standard, or for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure. This could be a fire chief, your insurance company, somebody with the NFPA, or someone else. Again, call your insurance company first.
The AHJ will review the dust collection system that you intend to install for the application. They’ll tell you if anything needs to change in order for it to be approved. In addition to the dust collector, there may be other requirements they’ll bring up like special fire extinguishers.
Fire and Explosion Protection Components
The AHJ may require installing a dry chemical system to extinguish a fire inside the dust collector. A chemical system recognizes a rise in temperature or a rise in pressure. It has fast-acting dampers on the inlet and outlet that isolate the fire. Then it immediately floods the collector with a chemical suppressive that smothers the flames. The chemical system contains the fire and keeps the dust collector from exploding. It does this by taking the oxygen away and absorbing the heat. The collector cannot have a typical water system in it. Water can cause further reaction to metal dust. It can act as an accelerant and add more fuel to the fire.
If the dust collector doesn’t have a chemical system and has explosion vents, the vents will blow out with a ball of flames. It’s going to burn the collector and potentially anything nearby. Therefore, isolation is the best thing you can do for a metal fire. Imperial offers another, NFPA conforming option to isolate a deflagration and stop a flame front. It’s the CMAXX with the proprietary IDA (In-Line Deflagration Arrester) DeltaMAXX filters. There are other combustible dust and fire accessory components as well. Spark traps, explosion-tested drum kits, and flameless explosion vents are a few.
Best Prevention Practices for Metal Fire Safety
Here are ways you can avoid metal fires in your plant. So far we’ve discussed potential fires inside your dust collector because that’s where you’re most likely to have one. But metal fires are also possible in metal processing areas throughout a facility. You should develop safety procedures and follow them when performing any manufacturing process on metals (cutting, grinding, drilling, etc.).
Segregate the Metals
All combustible metals should be separated and stored in secure locations or containers. This is especially important for metals that combust at low temperatures. More so, it’s critical with highly reactive metals like sodium, which burns on contact with air or water.
Metal dust should never be combined with anything else in the dust collection system. Earlier we talked about the hazards of collecting metal and wood dust together. If you have aluminum machining, that’s all you should be pulling into the collector. Nothing else should be going in there. Do not combine metal dust with anything else. Even aluminum and steel should not be mixed.
Yes, that means a separate, dedicated dust collector for one type of metal dust. This is a hard truth to hear because naturally, you don’t want to pay for two systems. Even aluminum chips will catch fire down at a certain size. The finer metal dust gets, the more it’s susceptible to burning.
Keep Up Good Housekeeping
Clean up work areas and do not allow metal dust to accumulate on any surfaces. That includes the floors. If you’re running a machining process that’s creating dust, it’s going to build up. That includes the rafters. This is especially important because you typically don’t see the dust piles up there.
The danger is in the accumulation, which can be the source of a secondary fire or explosion, ignited by the first one. Good housekeeping practices should be routinely performed.
Periodic Fire Safety Evaluations
This is the very best way to prevent a fire from happening. Have a qualified company come into your plant and perform a full risk assessment at regular intervals. They’ll advise you of any problem areas that you need to address. This is an NFPA code requirement of every commercial manufacturing property. Its purpose is to identify and eradicate potential fire hazards in the workplace. Insurance companies usually enforce these periodic evaluations.
Dealing with a Metal Fire Emergency
Despite your diligence and prep work to prevent a metal fire, it’s still always possible that you may have one. An ember or spark can find its way onto a flammable metal dust pile if good housekeeping isn’t maintained. It could also find its way into the dust collector if a spark trap isn’t installed. You would be surprised how easily an ignition source can inadvertently occur at an inlet suction point. Besides obvious employee evacuation, what should you do in the event of an actual metal fire at your plant?
Use Extinguishers Specifically for Metal Fires
We learned earlier that metal fires are classified as Class D fires. These are extremely dangerous because most people do not know how to properly fight them. Typically, the first thing people want to do is throw water on a fire or use a regular extinguisher. However, that’s the worst thing you can do for a metal fire. It just fuels the flames. If there’s a pile of metal dust on the ground that’s burning, water is not going to put it out. It’s just going to wash that flame into different areas of the plant.
So, you really need a dry chemical type extinguisher that is specifically designed for Class D fires. This smothers the fire and the oxygen fueling it. It also absorbs heat within the fire, leading to its extinguishment and reducing the chance of the fire spreading to other areas. Have Class D-rated extinguishers ready for use and train your employees on when and how to use them.
Leave a Burning Dust Collector Alone
More than likely, if you have a metal fire it will start in your dust collector. You or your employees may be tempted to try and extinguish it. Stay away from it. Here’s why.
If the collector has a chemical suppression system installed on it, that will isolate and extinguish the fire as explained earlier. This is the best scenario. Let the chemical system do its job. Do not open the doors to try and extinguish the fire yourself or check it afterward. We know now that oxygen will fuel any metal dust flames, so don’t open the doors. Leave it alone and call the fire department.
We’ve already discussed a collector that does not have a chemical suppression system but does have common explosion venting. The temperature and pressure will build up, eventually blowing out the vents. A ball of flames will be released. With properly sized explosion venting the collector likely won’t burst apart from the explosion, but it will continue to burn. In any case, you don’t want to be near it when that happens. Leave it alone and call the fire department.
The worst-case scenario is if your collector doesn’t have a chemical suppression system or explosion venting. It’s going to explode and burst apart from the rise in heat and pressure. Essentially, it is a bomb. Don’t approach it or try to relieve the growing pressure by opening the doors. Leave it alone. Evacuate according to plan. Call the fire department.
Keep Fire Safety a Priority
Avoiding metal dust fires has special challenges. Determining the danger potential of your specific metalworking application takes effort. So does cooperation and compliance with authorities. It’s a tough decision to buy an additional, dedicated dust collector just for metal dust. After all, dust collectors don’t contribute to your production output. Plus, over time it’s easy to become neglectful of good housekeeping, recurring safety training, and periodic inspections. Decide to keep your employees safe and your plant running with proper preparation and procedures for metal fire safety.
Imperial Systems, Inc., a manufacturer of industrial dust and fume collectors, has recently opened a new office location in The Colony, Texas. This expansion will allow Imperial Systems to better serve the vast array of manufacturing companies thriving in Texas. “We hope we can continue to grow our footprint in the South-Central area of the United States.Having this office will also better position us to work with our local partners, contractors, and dealers of dust collection equipment in that area,” said Justin Ferrainola, the South-Central Territory Manager at the new Texas branch.
Imperial Systems has already had the pleasure of working with many companies in metal, wood, and other industrial industries in the Texas region.With the new branch office, we will be better positioned to expand our focus into the many other markets throughout the territory.
The Colony is situated in the ideal location for the growth that Imperial Systems has in mind. “It is close to Frisco and McKinney, which in the greater Dallas area, has seen the most rapid growth in manufacturing” said Ferrainola. The Colony is only 30 minutes from downtown Dallas, and 40 minutes from Fort Worth. Beyond that, Oklahoma City, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio are all within a five-hour drive.
This is the first Podcast for the third season of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. In this Episode Donovan talks with Diane Cave, an expert in the field of dust collection. They discuss explosive dust and how to keep an eye out for safety with your collector. They also talk about the importance of vessel strength and the overall future of dust collection. To learn more about Element 6, the company Diane Cave works for visit: https://www.elmt6.com
[Intro]: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs podcast from Imperial Systems industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
Donovan: Hello and welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. This is our first episode of our third season and we’re excited that you guys are still with us. Today joining us is Diane Cave from Element 6. How are you doing Diane?
Diane: I’m good thanks and you?
Donovan: We’re doing great. It’s a little cold down here in Pennsylvania with the snow. You’re from up in Canada correct?
Diane: Correct.I’m in Halifax Nova Scotia Canada, where it’s probably colder today. Here it’s pretty chilly. It’s like minus 12 celsius.
Donovan: Yeah, we’re not quite there so. Well thanks for joining us, we appreciate it. So, not a lot of people might know you from our podcast but you have done a lot of work and have been in the Dust Industry for quite some time. Is that correct?
Diane: Yeah, this year I have the big milestone of 20 years. I don’t know if that officially makes me old or not, but yeah 20 years in the Dust World. I don’t really know where the time’s gone.
Donovan: Right, it definitely makes you a veteran in the dust world for 20 years. I’ll tell you that much.
Diane: So, yeah for sure.
Donovan: How did you get started in this whole thing 20 years ago?
Diane: So,20 years ago, I was a recent graduate at a university. And I was working at the customer service desk at Canadian Tire which would be like Lowe’s or Home Depot. A guy came in and he wanted to know if this is a very random story but it all plays in, he wanted to know if a spark plug matched the picture that he had drawn on this diagrammatic so that he could fix his truck, his bronco. I was like I don’t know man, like take it out of the package. He didn’t want to. He threw the package at me and I caught it with my left hand. In Canada, you, I don’t actually have mine today because I burnt my hand, wear an iron ring on the pinky of your working hand. I’m left-handed and so I caught it with my left hand. He was like, oh, you’re an engineer. Then I made fun of him and I was like, oh, aren’t you smart and he hired me.
Diane: I worked for him for 15 years. Then it was just kind of a decision and what he did was combustible dust, dust collection, industrial ventilation. So then it was just kind of a decision after I’d been there that you know kind of under his wing for however long. I wanted to prove to myself if I could, you know, make it on my own two feet as opposed to always being under. So, then about three and a half years ago I guess it would be I left and went to Element 6 to kind of start a dust adventure here.
Donovan: Yeah.
Diane: So, I’ve been here since. Yeah.
Donovan: So that’s a very different path to get into dust collection. But I’m not sure I’ve ever talked to anybody who had a real straightforward one honestly. So it’s a unique industry where people come from all different ways and shapes to get involved in it. So now you’re at Element 6 though, right?
Diane: Yep.
Donovan: So tell us more about Element 6. What is it? What do you do there? What’s the company? Tell us more about what’s going on there.
Diane: So, in general Element 6 is a much larger company than just the entity group that I work with and the overall company. So, we have an office just outside Toronto, Ontario, and Georgetown, one up near Ottawa, one in London, Ontario, and then here in Halifax. I think we’re starting one soon in the states somewhere.
As a whole, we’re kind of a multi-faceted engineering company that focuses somewhat more on the chemical industry. We have a particular workflow that starts with 3D design and 3D scanning. So we’ll start with 3D scanning and then develop it all from moving forward in the 3D world using all sorts of 3D packages. We do all sorts of mechanical, computational fluid dynamics, piping layouts, designs, pressure vessels stuff, and then electrical and civil so kind of anything and all. We do like big plant designs right down to smaller projects. Then the group that I work with, here in Halifax, we just focus on dust.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: We do kind of, I always say to everyone that, so if it involves dust then we do it. So starting with dust collection system assessments or DHA’s right through to you know like installation commissioning, troubleshooting, design packages, finite element analysis for vessel strength to make sure that a lot of places don’t do is determining the P Red of a pre-existing vessel.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: Yeah, hood design, which I just did my personal plug, just did a webinar on. Yeah and I like training so kind of anything and all stuff right across the board dealing with dust.
Donovan: Gotcha. Now do you guys focus a lot more on new projects or do you focus a lot more on existing spaces? Which one would you say is more of?
Diane: It just kind of depends on what the client needs. Lately, it’s been a whole lot of DHA stuff, everyone, trying to catch up with that DHA deadline, because we’ve already exceeded it. Then helping the end-user the client figure out kind of where to move on next and how to implement the things that need to be in to be safe. But some new projects as well. Lately, I’ve been living my life in breweries. It seems like I’m doing a lot of work in breweries.
Donovan: Yeah.
Diane: Has its pluses and its minuses. A lot of beer but then there’s a lot of beer. But I would say predominantly it’s more existing systems or replacement of, determining if an existing system is viable to go through a process change or something like that and then upgrading it. So that would be what it is.
Donovan: So, Yeah. So when I’m okay. So, if I was a customer and I’m coming to you and I have an existing dust collector already. What are the things that I’m looking for or what you would be looking for to say this is acceptable now for this combustible dust application or it’s not? Well, how do you guys actually go through and look at that evaluation? What would that look like step by step?
Diane: I guess the first thing would be to determine if they’ve got an adequate collection. Because a lot of times, clients just want dust collectors worn out and we’d like to just replace it with whatever is already there.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: It’s notorious in the dust collection world that everything is undersized because it’s the people who are selling it to be the cheapest. But in the long run under-sizing, just causes costs more money in the end. So the first thing is always to assess whether or not they’ve got adequate flow and collection for what they need not for what like what is currently installed. Then from there, they’re going on and then sizing to make sure that the ducting is sized correctly. Then make sure the dust collector is adequate for the application. Then look at the fan to see whether the fan can do what they actually need. Because more often than not the fan is grossly undersized in terms of static pressure requirements.
Donovan: So a lot of what you’re seeing first is possibly an undersized collector with an undersized fan and then people are saying why do we have problems and you guys let them know it’s because they have an undersized collector and undersized fan.
Diane: Yeah like there’s a lot of forgiveness in with a system if you’re if your fan is oversized. I’m not saying go out and oversize your fan but if your fan is bigger than what you actually need there’s a whole lot of forgiveness there because you’re pumping way more air through. So you’re not going to be having problems with stuff collecting in your ducting you’ll probably get way better suction at your hood so even if your hoods are designed poorly your oversized fan will kind of makeup for it.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: Then even if you don’t clean your dust collector, you have substandard, is that a play way to say it, some standard maintenance on your dust collector, and your static pressure gets high in your dust collector well your oversized fan is going to take care of it.
Donovan: So still overcome that challenge.
Diane: Yeah well to a certain extent so if your fan is oversized then there’s a whole lot more forgiveness in there but more often than not you know it’s the bare minimum. So then the second you come into one little hiccup or one problem in the system, so your bags don’t get changed or your cartridges don’t get changed as often as they should then that’s just enough of a static pressure bump to then cause your fan to the technical term “crap out”.
Donovan: So I like what you’re saying here. So if you’re looking at an old system and you’re having issues it could be you have a smaller too small of a system too small of a fan and at that point, the thing that you guys might recommend is to go into a larger system or get a larger fan on that on that system. So those are so if somebody out there is listening right now and they’re thinking man these are some of the issues I’m seeing dust settling in my duct, my filters are you know everything’s just underperforming it could be those two aspects. Right?
Diane: Yes, yeah more often than not it’s, I’m using that term more often than not a lot today, but I mean the fan is a good place to start looking if you have problems. Because it’s the fan’s a workhorse of the whole system right. So if your fan’s not sucking then your system probably sucks.
Donovan: Yeah, I do or it doesn’t suck. Right, that’s the problem.
Diane: Right, yeah so.
Donovan: Yeah so that’s one size of collector size of the fan so that’s one of the things you look for. So you said ductwork layout is possibly another culprit that you guys look at. Is that correct?
Diane: Yeah so a lot of people really like to run, really small ducting really far. And what that does is it drives a static pressure up. So a lot of times, not everyone a lot of people really like to just kind of oh we put this new piece of equipment in we need dust collection well we’ll just slap in a line slap in a line slap in a line.
Donovan: Right. Yeah sure.
Diane: I’m sure you’ve seen it where you end up them with like the octopus of ducting all over the place.
Donovan: Oh, yes.
Diane: There always seems to be one line or somebody decides to use it as a vacuum system. Oh, let’s just put this inch and a half hose on here, and then we can use it for housekeeping. You’ll look at it and you’re like well that’s what’s causing the static pressure drive in the whole system. So if you just take and lop off that kind of one gangly limb that’s hanging out all over the place then a lot of times it can change the whole flow of the system. Then all of a sudden everything…
Donovan: Comes back to life.
Diane: Yeah I was gonna say perks up but yeah comes back to life and then your flow can take off. So then if you kind of look at what the ducting layout is and what’s going on then you can a lot of times work with what’s there. So it’s not always I’m not a big pro always a proponent of oh rip it out start again.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: Because not everyone has the, well, first of all, you want to try and not throw as much stuff in the landfill as possible but there isn’t always the time, capital, or even ability to rip it all out. So it’s you know okay well if we change this or change that and we get rid of this ducting or hey if we just even improve these hoods or get rid of your as I always like to call them the elephant trunks, which are just like rounds of duct if you get rid of the elephant trunks and put hoods on there that might even be enough to reduce your static pressure to then get your fan to bring it back to life as you said.
Donovan: Yeah. Okay, so we’re looking at a system we have a couple of things that you’ve mentioned that you guys use to kind of troubleshoot or evaluate. What would be the thing when you get to a point you’re like I’m sorry this is it, yeah you have to change your system out? What would be a couple of those things that no matter what the old one has to go and we have to get a new one? What would cause that?
Diane: I would say, and you mean like the whole like because it’s kind of different for different things. So like if you’re looking at the hoods and you’re like all right these hoods have to be ripped out because you just look at them and you’re like and they’re doing nothing they’re in the wrong spot. They’re held together with tape. You know binding tape has many uses and apparently one of them is to hold ducting together. With ducting, I would say that the to like go with the rip out and tear apart or rip out and do again would be that if it’s really just slapped together like if you look at it and you’re like okay this like it’s undergone a lot of morphing over the years right and has all kinds of new branches and lines and nobody there’s never been any thought or care taken to it and you just kind of stand there and you’re like it just has to go. It’s just…
Donovan: Right. So there might have been an initial design but that has gone out the window years ago and many things have been placed and put into there that shouldn’t be there.
Diane: Yeah.
Donovan: They were never initially considered.
Diane: yeah or if you’re dealing with sometimes if you’re dealing with really combustible dust and you’ve got spiral ducting or really heavy loading or abrasive dust and it’s all spiraling you’re like you know it’s in your best interest and you’ve got a poor design then it’s in your best interest to just replace it and then put in some smooth-walled single seam ducting.
Donovan: Right yeah because that could you know that spiral duct could potentially be a spark hazard. Right?
Diane: Exactly. Yeah or even have an increase of static pressure because it all comes down to static pressure. But yeah, it could be an increase for spark hazard, and then it’s known that spiral ducting doesn’t quite handle internal pressure as well so if you do have some sort of deflagration event you want to make sure that it doesn’t unwind your spiral ducting.
Donovan: Right. So now we went from the hoods to the duct to the collector so what would be something on the collector that you’re just like listen this is one you’re gonna have to just abandon and get a new one.
Diane: If you can poke your finger through the side of it that’s usually the start. Or if patchwork has been done where it’s like oh we just tarred this whatever here that’s usually another sign so like the physical appearance of it if it’s past gone then you’ll have to replace it. If it’s a combustible dust application and there’s and you’re not certain of the vessel strength so you do the vessel analysis on it and you do a finite element analysis and it’s just going to have to put way more reinforcing on it in order like it’s going to cost more to do the reinforcing and to actually buy a new one then that’s usually you know the time to put in a new one. or
Donovan: If you’re going to be building a new collector around the old collector it’s probably time to get a new one. Right?
Diane: Exactly when you’re like well we got to put on a thousand pounds of angle on this sucker…
Donovan: Right.
Diane: Then you know it’s probably not worthwhile. or if the like if the requirements of the air that are needed drive the air to cloth ratio to a really high level where it drives your static pressure up or if it’s a baghouse and then you have some a very high interstitial velocity or whatnot where you’re not certain if the dust collector will actually function for what the application is you know what I mean where the dust won’t fall out then it’s usually time to at that point to get a new one.
Donovan: To get a new one, yeah. So when you get to a collector and you determine that it is combustible dust that you’re dealing with and now the collector initially wasn’t set up for combustible dust. How do you determine you’ve talked a couple of times about determining the vessel strength to see if it actually can handle that? Then what are the steps you do to do that and how would you actually go about maybe trying to retrofit that collector because I know that’s a little bit of a tricky area to do that?
Diane: Yeah, so the first thing is in terms of determining a vessel strength. Basically, we’ll take a scan of the vessel like a with our like a 3D scanners and then also because the scan is good for overall bigger measurements. But we’re looking for the kind of precise stuff, size of bolts and bolt holes, and whatnot. You can likely get it with, people will argue that you can get it with a scanner but I’m a little bit old school in certain things and then I know that we’ve got the information.
So you go through and then make sure you get all the information, as in like the size of angles and where they are on the unit and then we create a 3D model and do a pressure analysis on it. Then from there determine what’s going to go…
Donovan: Right.
Diane: And what it’s going to hold so we like to work to two-thirds yield but it’s not always the case on some older vessels. You don’t always get the option to then reinforce it to two-thirds yield. So sometimes it’s to two-thirds ultimate and then it’s just creating a package so creating a design package that says okay well this is where you’ve got to put your reinforcing and this is what you have to do. There have been cases where we’ve gotten so far and just been like you can’t like the pressures that you want to get to we just it’s to the point of being ridiculous. It looks kind of like I don’t know…
Donovan: Like a Mad Max version of a dust collector.
Diane: Yeah I was going to say like the Shredder Technodrome or something like that from the Turtles. Yeah like it’s just it’s this is just unbelievably ridiculous and you’re like oh this is stupid. So then you just kind of have to approach the client and be like okay so this is what you know this is what it’s going to look like ish you really want to proceed down this route and if they do then okay then we’ll go that way. Or you end up being like okay well we’ll do it to two-thirds ultimate and then knowing that the dust collector will be not usable but you know we’ll be able to make the changes needed for you know it’ll be safe until you…
Donovan: You’re saying two-thirds ultimate is that correct.
Diane: Yeah so two-thirds yield strength versus two-thirds ultimate strength of the material. So the difference between it is that at two-thirds yield you basically if you have a deflagration event and that’s two-thirds of like the material strength based on whatever your p red will be on right on
venting or you’re I always get the letters wrong tsp for suppression basically your p red for suppression. So two-thirds ultimate you won’t have deformation in your vessel so you can have an event a deflagration that will happen but the dust collector would basically be like all right change the filter media carry on right yeah but with two-thirds ultimate, you’ll have deformation but not rupture so your square dust collector might go from square to roundish.
Donovan: Right gotcha so those are pretty important things to know as well.
Diane: Yeah and you’d be surprised there are all kinds of things that you run into when you’re at sites that people don’t know or end users don’t know because they’re making whatever it is. So whether they make granola bars or tires or brew beer or whatever it is that they do that’s what they do they’re not aficionados in the world of dust collection and explosion protection.
Donovan: Right, they don’t have 20 years experience.
Diane: Yeah, so then that’s why they bring in trusted consultants to handle all that right but I would say that one of the biggest things that I see gets missed in terms of explosion protection is vessel strength. So often you’ll be like, oh can I see the venting calculations for this and then so you get the venting calculations and they’ll say that you know it’s the P Red is I don’t know I’m gonna pick a number six-bar and then you’re like, oh let’s look at the vessel strength and the vessel strength is you know 2.9. You’re like oh sorry your P Red I got the [inaudible] six-bar but six psi and then your vessel strength your P Red will come out to be like 2.9 psi and you’re like whoa so this it’s the vessel is going to blow long before…
Donovan: Yeah it’s not going to be able to contain the explosion or be directed in a safe way.
Diane: Yeah and it’s and that’s one of the biggest things that gets missed. Then people will just put vents on a dust collector without even thinking about oh well it’s got to be good and it’s like oh this is basically you know aluminum foil stretched over a frame it’s like it’s not going to hold any pressure. A big one is bucket elevators so bucket elevators are supposed to be designed to a strength of like half a bar and most of them are lucky if they do one psi.
Donovan: Right, yeah so they’re just yeah so people are there’s a and this is all I would say recently more education on this a lot more people are coming to this understanding and unfortunately it’s probably been through a lot of the events that have happened but I think that’s what’s happened in the past and it’s helped get people closer to a safer work environment. The goal is to get there every day closer and closer to better safer so that you know people can go home to their loved ones at night because their dust collector didn’t blow up and I know that’s what you guys are doing and that’s what we’re trying to do here so so that’s a little bit of the past. What do you guys do? What do you think’s gonna be like in the future as you guys are doing more of these DHAs and do you know what’s going on out there? What’s your finger on the pulse of where you think the industry’s going and what people are doing?
Diane: What I hope anyway is so in as you know in this world of dust collection there are very few people that do it and do it well. Therefore it puts a demand well I assume you know so and therefore puts a demand on a lot of people and I hope that the industry is moving so that there are more knowledgeable people that understand things like that they don’t just like sign off on stuff because it’s like oh whatever this will never happen yeah sure fine. That’s where I hope the industry is going. It seems to be that there are more and more people that are taking an interest in things like if we’re dealing with combustible dust in terms of explosion protection and whatnot there are more people aware and educated in that field. I think it’s because like you said there’s been so many there’s been more incidents and instead of people wanting and the push to be in a safe work environment as opposed to being like oh whatever it doesn’t matter it’s fine right it blew up today so it’s not gonna you know we got another 20 years before it’s going to happen again you know lots of lots of statistics. So I think, that though I hope anyway in terms of combustible dust I hope that that’s the way that the industry is moving because of education and awareness because of things like this were to bring the information to people. Or like what Chris Cloney is doing right. It does safety science so making people aware of what the hazards are because I think a lot of it in terms of dust collection a lot of it dusk so when I say dust collection I also include like combustible dust in that umbrella. I think a lot of it is just education and so the way I see it going is that people want to do the right thing now as opposed to just wanting to check the box and wanting it to be whatever that you know we just need a solution yeah whatever this will get us by for now people are…
Donovan: Right
Diane: We want to do the right thing.
Donovan: Yeah, yeah I see that too. I see a lot more people not just concerned about getting it done to check a box but they are concerned with their workers and the health of you know the people around them and the health and the environment.
Diane: Yeah.
Donovan: I think we’ve seen a lot of that change over the last 20 years. Probably in the time you’ve been in this industry there’ve been a lot of people changing in that regard. It’s good. I don’t think hopefully we don’t go backward at all in our industry. We continue to make things safer and cleaner for everybody who’s involved, especially people who are out welding or the people who are out working in those workshops that we want to help them have a better life.
Diane: Oh, for sure but I don’t see how it can go backward.
Donovan: Right.
Diane: Because going backward would be, I don’t know, getting rid of dust collectors and then we just have to do a dollar thing. Yeah, it would be and I don’t think the people working in those environments would let it happen in this day and age.
Donovan: I think you’re right I hope that you did. So we’re both saying we’re hoping for a brighter future with a safer work environment I think that’s what we’re seeing.
Diane: I think yeah. I think that’s where we’re going. I think a lot of things are pushing the trend that way because people don’t want their companies to be in the headlines. You know company XYZ had an incident where whatever. They don’t want to be the imperial sugars for lack of a better way to say it I mean that’s a bad way to analyze it but that’s what it is they don’t want to be that one in the headline that you know
Donovan: We had negative things first
Diane: Yeah we had so many mortalities and however many you know injuries on-site because of because we…
Donovan: something that’s preventable, something that’s very preventable.
Diane: Because we didn’t have inlet isolation or because you know our explosion vents were appointed at the company daycare which I’ve seen more than once.
Donovan: Yeah, so well Hey Diane, we’re so glad that you guys are out there helping people solve this and figure it out, and do what you do. If someone’s interested in getting a hold of your company or learning more about you guys or they’ve heard something here they’re like man she could really help me out. What would be the best way for them to get a hold of you?
Diane: You can google me. It’ll probably pop up there are not too many Diane Caves out there. I’m on LinkedIn. You can email me at dkave@elmt6.com. You can give me a, yeah if you are on our company website which oddly enough I don’t know off the top of my head. We’ll put a link to your website in the notes for the podcast so if anybody’s listening or on Youtube watching this they can just look at it there so we’ll do that for you don’t worry about it. Perfect, because I was like I’m not sure if it’s Element 6 Solutions or if it’s shortened down. I probably should have remembered that beforehand but it’s not a big deal. I’m sure if someone Element 6 Dust Collection they’ll figure out explosive dust it’ll come up if you googled it. Put in Element 6 Dust Collection you’ll probably find me, yeah we’ll find you guys.
Donovan: Hey, I just want to say thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Hopefully, we get to talk to you again sometime because I feel like we just scratched the surface of the knowledge you have. If you’re interested in learning more about us here at Imperial Systems and Dusty Jobs you can follow us on Youtube Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, or learn more about us on our website. So thanks for listening to everyone out there and stay healthy, stay safe. Thanks so much.
Diane: Thanks for having me.
[Outro]: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs podcast. Breathe better work safer.
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Imperial Systems, Inc., a manufacturer of industrial dust and fume collectors, has recently opened a new office location in The Colony, Texas. This expansion will allow Imperial Systems to better serve the vast array of manufacturing companies thriving in Texas. “We hope we can continue to grow our footprint in the South-Central area of the United States.