Differential pressure is an integral part of understanding how a dust collector is operating. System operators and maintenance technicians can use this information to create efficient maintenance plans for equipment and the proper operation of the system. This can save you from expensive repairs, dangerous working conditions, and lost production time.
What is Differential Pressure?
Differential Pressure, also known as DP, measures the difference in pressure between the clean (clean air plenum) and dirty (filter side or dirty air plenum) sides of your dust collector. It is a measurement of the resistance to airflow between the chambers of the collector. As dust builds on the filters, it creates more resistance for the air trying to pass through.
How Does Differential Pressure Relate to Dust Collection?
Differential pressure is important when it comes to dust collection because it indicates the physical changes in the filters of your dust collector. As dust builds up on the filter, it creates resistance for the air trying to pass through. The more dust and dirtier the filter, the more unequal pressure is created, which will result in a higher DP reading.
One way to think about this concept is when you are drinking from a straw. If you drink water through a regular straw, you will be able to drink the water without much effort. However, if you were to pinch the straw, it will take much more effort to drink the same amount of water as before. This is because there is much less volume flowing through the straw compared to when it is unobstructed.
This is the same thing that is happening in your dust collector. As the filter in your system becomes dirty, the differential pressure rises because the holes for airflow become smaller. As DP rises, adjustments must be made to compensate for the loss of suction. If the unit features a VFD (variable frequency drive), it will automatically adjust. If not, manual adjustments must be made with a slide gate or fan damper to adjust airflow.
Why Is It Important For Dust Collection?
Now that you understand how differential pressure relates to dust collection, let’s discuss why it is important:
The differential pressure is important for dust collection because it indicates what is happening physically to the filters of your operating system. The main use of the readings is to determine what the health of the filters are inside the unit. Differential pressure begins to rise when the filters in the unit are creating resistance. A DP staying above 5” of water gauge means that it is time for the filters to be replaced. This also means a DP around 4.5” W.G. is a good time to order replacement dust collector filters.
These readings will also help you troubleshoot and prepare a maintenance plan to ensure the safest working conditions and environment within your operations. By tracking the small performance changes within your dust collecting system, you can diagnose and respond to any issues swiftly. This will also require little to no downtime in your operation.
Do Not Neglect The Readings
The readings of differential pressure are often used to determine whether the dust collector is running at the required efficiency. There may be specific parameters for air quality permits in your area that are set by local, state, or federal agencies. The differential pressure readings may be requested to ensure compliance with the local ordinances for permits. Operations that are not within compliance are subject to heavy fines.
In one instance, a company was fined for operating one of its dust collectors with a broken pressure gauge and without accurately reporting their differential pressure readings. This specific company was fined $325,000. The fine also does not account for lost production time or repair costs. The key takeaway is to take your readings and the health of your dust collector very seriously.
How Can You Use Differential Pressure to Control Filter Cleaning?
Using the differential pressure readings to control automated filter cleaning has many benefits including: compressed air savings opportunities, lower total emissions, longer life on solenoids and diaphragms valves, and potentially longer filter life.
The CMAXX Dust and Fume Collection System offers maximum cleaning performance with 10% more filter media than competitors’ models. The CMAXX features powerful pulse cleaning technology to increase filter life and efficiency. Its heavy-duty design makes the CMAXX the most durable dust and fume collector in the industry, it offers the patented weather-resistant CrownTech roof and no external bolt holes. In addition, the modular design of the CMAXX means it can be customized for each application.
Conclusion
Differential pressure can make or break the health of your dust collector. Without monitoring the differential pressure and health of your filters within your dust collector, your operations are subject to fines, costly maintenance, and dangerous working environments. But when you track and observe your differential pressure levels, you can quickly respond to fluctuations in your system. This will allow you to create thoughtful maintenance schedules, understand the inside health of your collector more than ever, and make more sound operational decisions within your business.
In this Episode Donovan talks to Steve Bunyard who started ReIgnite Hope in Southern California. Steve tells us about their amazing and free welding program, open to those in need, to help them make a better life for themselves. Steve talks about how the program continues to grow and continues to change lives with welding. To learn more about ReIgnite Hope and how you can help, visit there website at: https://www.reignitehope.com
ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems. Industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
DONOVAN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs podcast. We’re so glad you could be with us today. I’m Donovan Karki and joining me today is Steve Bunyard from ReIgnite Hope. How are you doing, Steve?
STEVE: Hey. I’m doing great. Looking forward to our time together here.
DONOVAN: Yeah. Now, you’re joining us via Zoom here. You guys are located out in California?
STEVE: Yeah, we’re in the city of Gardena. We’re about 15 miles South of Downtown Los Angeles.
DONOVAN: There you go, there you go. So, we’re a little bit on different time frame but we’ve been able to make it work to meet up.
STEVE: Yeah.
DONOVAN: So, we’re very interested. We’ve learned about ReIgnite Hope here at Imperial little while back and we are really interested in what you guys are doing, but before we get into what ReIgnite is doing, tell me a little bit about Steve. What’s Steve’s background? Where did you come from? And let us hear a little bit about yourself.
STEVE: Yeah. Thanks, Don. Well, I spent most of my adult life as a pastor at a church here in Southern California, Rolling Hills Covenant Church. A fairly large church and when I was about 10 years into that, our church was doing a lot of work up on Skid Row in Los Angeles. We have a really high homeless population here in L.A. county.
They estimate maybe 40 to 50,000 people a night are sleeping outdoors here in L.A. county. And we were up there doing food, blankets, and hygiene kits. Kind of the normal stuff you do and working with one of the homeless missions up there.
And one day, the matriarch of the Fred Jordan Mission, a famous mission up there, Willie Jordan, came up to me and said, “Pastor Steve, what can we do so that we don’t keep feeding the same people all the time?” and I say, “Gosh, Willie, I don’t know. I think they need a job. I don’t think they can get out of Skid Row without a job, but I don’t know what to tell you on that
DONOVAN: Yeah.
STEVE: Our church doesn’t do job training, but I did say, “Hey, I’ll pray about it though” So I did. I started praying about it.
And welding kept weighing on my heart. I learned to weld as a young man. So, that was the only thing I could think of that maybe we could teach people that they could actually go get a job at, but it seemed like a crazy idea to me. I kept praying and that kept weighing on me.
I thought “Alright, I’m just going to go back to Willie and say, “Hey, what about if we start teaching people how to weld?”. She’ll probably hate the idea. She’s like 80 years old, it’ll scare her to death and then I can let this go and get my life back.
And I went back to Willie, and I said, “Hey, what do you think about this idea? Teaching people?”. Well, she loved it. She said, “I’ll even give you a room inside the mission where you can start. And I thought “Oh boy, here we go
And so she did. She vetted 5 homeless men for us, gave us a room. I went and bought a couple welding machines. We jumped in and it changed their lives. The thing took off.
Everybody wanted in. I was still on staff full time as a pastor, and for the next 10 years would stay on staff as a pastor after that. But as ReIgnite Hope grew, and grew, and grew, it became harder, and harder, and harder for me to do both. And so, about a year and a half ago, I asked the church’s blessing if I could step off staff and devote my full attention to ReIgnite Hope because I just felt like neither one was getting enough energy from me, and I didn’t feel good about that.
So, that’s a year and a half ago, and so now, I’m full focus ReIgnite Hope and it is just continuing to expand and grow like crazy. That’s kind of how ReIgnite Hope got started. Our name comes from the fact that we’re coming alongside a lot of people who’ve lost hope. They don’t see a bright future. The American Dream means nothing to them.
Many cases, they’ve had kind of a hard life. Maybe been incarcerated, involved in gangs, dropped out of high school, got in trouble, and the hope is just gone. So, that’s where we come in and come alongside them, and see their lives change.
DONOVAN: Wow, man, so you really caught us up on a lot there real quick. That’s great.
So, Steve, when I’m thinking about this for you, like you said, when you first got into this, you weren’t 100% sure about it. Like, what it was going to turn out to. So, what was that journey like for you as you saw and met these people and what happened along that way? What caused you to go “You know what, this is an important thing, and we need to kind of keep growing it”? Did it grow on its own? What did it take to make it grow?
STEVE: Yeah, I’ll tell you what. It’s God that made it grow because I don’t know how to grow this, and I still don’t know how to grow it. we’re over 10 years now and ReIgnite Hope and but we saw the need, of course on Skid Row, that’s where we started. We’re not on Skid Row any longer, but the need was there.
And then when I saw with this did in their lives: the hope that it brought, the optimism about the future that this brought, the excitement in their lives, and then getting jobs. I mean, real jobs, with a real skill and good pay. And it just spread like wildfire.
We’ve never advertised the program at all. We’ve had as many as 500 people on our waiting list, wanting to get in, but it’s word of mouth. When your life gets changed, you tell everybody you know about it. You tell your friends, your mom tells all the other moms, and it just spreads, like a virus, given that we’re in COVID country right and all that.
And so, we see that all the time. We just graduated 44 students here on Friday. They’ve already told all their friends about it and their moms are telling the other moms. We get calls all the time wanting in, wanting in, wanting in.
Yeah, so that’s how it grows is just by life change. And again, when your life changes, you tell people.
DONOVAN: So, if there’s somebody out there, and they’re in your area, and they hear this podcast, and they say, “That’s something I might want to be involved with”. What makes someone qualified to be part of the program? How do you become part of the program? What’s a qualifying factor?
STEVE: Yeah, good question, Donovan. So, step one is go to our website: reignitehope.com, and just click on the apply button. There’s an application you can fill out there.
And we kind of ask ourselves three questions with each applicant. As for trying to filter through them: Does this person really need our help? Can we help them? And do they really want our help?
We want to see motivation in their life. Our program is free. We’ve never charged for the training. We just believe in that they’re going to pay us back by their hard work. They’re going to show up and really put the effort in.
We’re looking for folks that really need the help, really want to turn their life around, and really serious about it. And then we just do our best to sort through the applications and take as many as we can. Ones we can’t take we’ll put on a waiting list for the next class and try to touch as many lives as we can.
And we can’t say yes to everybody, but we try to say yes to as many people as possible and we’re continuing to grow some of our capacity here that I’ll talk about a little bit later, which is allowing us to touch more and more lives. We expect we’re going to be able to train well over 200 students in 2022, maybe up around 300.
DONOVAN: Oh, wow. So, what’s the program look like? Is it a one week program? Is it a one-year program? What does it look like if someone gets involved? What are the requirements?
STEVE: So, hey we love trade schools, so don’t take this as a negative, but a typical trade school is going to be maybe a one- or two-year program. We’re dealing with folks that they need a job now and they can’t go for a one-year or two-year training.
We do a one month, five days a week. They’ll get 120 hours of training and in one month, they’re ready for employment and then we help them find their first job. So, we got a full-time person on staff, that all they do is job placement.
We have the American Welding Society comes in here at the ends of the month and tests them. And upon passing their tests, they are then a certified welder. Real deal certification, certified welder and ready for employment.
And so, it’s just been great the way that that we’ve been able to really microwave this and prepare them for an entry level welding job. And a lot of jobs out there. Real shortage of welders, all over the country, but literally in one month, we can get them ready. Now we do also offer mobile training beyond our fixed brick and mortar here and in the mobile training…go ahead
DONOVAN: Oh, I was going to say, so it sounds like the in-house program is a very, it sounds like it’s an intense program so, if you’re going to sign up, you have to be committed.
STEVE: Yeah, you do, you do. You have to be able to give it five days a week and really apply yourself because that 120 hours is going to be intense. Just think about it, one month you go from maybe being unskilled to having a really valuable skill in your life.
DONOVAN: Right, right. That just sounds like really great. That sounds great. So that’s kind of what you guys do, who you do it for, now you started talking about maybe a little bit of some other opportunities you have here for not just at your facility, but outside of your facility.
STEVE: Yeah. So, our demographic is a little bit of everything. We certainly have some homeless in our classes. Some folks coming out of jail, out of prison, out of gangs, little bit of everything. Or just the working poor, they haven’t been in trouble maybe, but minimum wage job is all they have. It’s all they’re going to get unless they get some kind of job skill
And we’re in our third facility so, we outgrew the first one on route, on Skid Row. Los Angeles Police Department helped us get a second facility, we outgrew that one. And then we moved here to Gardena our third facility, but then we maxed out this one. We could do a little over 200 students a year here so, we came up with the thought of “Well, maybe we could instead of getting buildings everywhere because people want us to come in different cities, and even different states, could we take it mobile?”
So we decided to jump in and try that. So, we built out an 18-wheeler that we can train 24 students at a time in the 18-wheeler. We’ve been doing that now and we can travel around Southern California here.
All we need is a place to park and we can go where the need is. We can go where the folks are that need help. And so, we partner with different churches around Southern California to park in their parking lot, help them reach their community, help them bless their community.
And now we’re at a high school about 40-44 miles from here where we’re training kids that they’ve identified as vulnerable. These are kids that they know aren’t going to go to college, and if they get out of high school without a job skill, they’re probably going to get in trouble.
So, they were saying, “Please, please, please, would you guys come out here?”. So, we’re out there training them now as well, in the mobile center.
Then the demand’s so great, we’re building a second one. We’ve got a second now.
DONOVAN: Is the is the mobile center program the same as the in-house program? Do you have anything different about that?
STEVE: It is different. So, in the mobile one, we’re going to go two days a week, for 10 weeks. So, that has a little bit of an advantage in that if maybe somebody’s got maybe a part time job, or some job that they can get a couple days off and do the training, they don’t have to give up their job if they have one currently. That helps with that.
But doing the two days a week helps keep us from having the trailer there five straight days because we need to move it around and meet as many needs as we can.
So, we can go to one location on Monday and Tuesday, go to another location on Wednesday and Thursday, go to another location Friday and Saturday, that kind of a thing. And then, when the second trailer is done that’s going to give us more flexibility, but it’s two days a week for 10 weeks. Same amount of training.
DONOVAN: Yeah, but you can reach more since it’s less students in the trailer, you can actually get almost the same amount of students per week because you’re able to move to different locations.
STEVE: Yeah, it’s really been a tremendous addition to our program. And of course, now everybody hears about it so I’ve had calls from Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, and all over the place saying, “Hey, can the mobile come here?” Not to mention cities around us, so we’re just going to see as God continues to grow this, how many we can touch with it. And I don’t know how many trailers it’ll be, but it’s one for the moment, and two on the way.
DONOVAN: There you go. And speaking of that, it is sometimes a challenge for someone if they don’t have their own vehicle, or public transportation to get to where the training is, to be able to go to them. Boy, isn’t that just a great thing that you can do that, and head on in there and help them out where they’re at
STEVE: Yeah, this high school 44 miles from us, you know those kids aren’t going to be able to drive 44 miles to get to our building here, but we can go there and just park right in the high school parking lot. Train him right there. And those kids are so excited. The principal told us I’ve never seen these kids this excited about anything. And you can just see it on their faces.
DONOVAN: Yeah, that’s great. So, we talked a little bit about how you guys got started in this and what you’re doing, but Steve, why do you do this? Why are you taking this time to help these people? I mean, this could be a very profitable thing. Running this trailer around and charging people to do it. Why do you do it the way you do it?
STEVE: Well, we’re a Christian ministry, Donovan and it’s our faith that drives us to do this. The Bible repeatedly encourages us to remember the poor, and to be a blessing to those in need. So, when Jesus was asked out of all the rules, out of all the regulations, out of all the laws, what’s the most important one of all?
And he says it’s to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, but he says the second one is this: love your neighbor. Love your neighbor as yourself. So, this is how we show our love to our neighbors, everyone. Everyone that needs our help and so that’s why we do it. That’s what drives us to do it.
And our mission is very simple here at ReIgnite Hope. We do two things: we try to lead people vocationally toward a career, and spiritually toward Christ. That’s our mission. We know they need both in their lives. Their lives aren’t really going to change if all they do is get a paycheck. And they’re still thinking the same way, living the same way, making the same choices. But with Christ in their life, everything changes.
DONOVAN: Well, that sounds great. I was just thinking more about this and there might be some people out there that are listening, and they really like what you have going on up there and they might be interested in trying to help you guys out too. So, is there a way if someone is interested, is there a way to reach out to you? What’s the best way to learn more about what you’re doing and maybe get involved?
STEVE: Yeah, so on our website again reignitehope.com, we’ve got a volunteer button there you can click on so, that’s one way. We’ve got really five ways people can help. One, is people of course can donate to us. Again, we’re nonprofit. We’ve never charged for the training.
But, we exist by the generosity of people that believe in what we’re doing and give to it. So, you can be a financial donor and every dollar helps change a life.
We’ve got four areas of volunteerism. We will literally take people who know nothing about welding, we’ll train you how to weld so you can be a welding coach. That’s part of what really makes our program I think really successful, again in a trade school environment.
And because of budget considerations for them, you might have one instructor and 30 students. We’ve got one instructor and three students so it’s really fantastic. We’ve got such a great ratio there, instructor to students that we can really come alongside them and get their skills up much quicker. So, if you want to be a welding coach, we’ll definitely jump at the chance to train you for that.
We’ve got the need for math tutors here. A lot of our kids just aren’t strong in math, and you need a little bit of math to be a welder. Fractions, decimals, angles, things like that, how to read a tape measure.
We’ve also got resume tutors that help our students get their resumes together and coach them a little bit on interview skills.
And then, we got a lunch program here where it’s mostly small groups from different churches in the area that will come and serve lunch to our students every single day. That way they don’t have to bring lunch, they don’t have to worry about if they don’t have money for lunch, or anything like that. Right here on the premises, and at the trailer, a lunch gets served every single day. So those are all areas people can help and be part of the team and join our mission. Whichever one of those five areas resonates with you, come and join our mission.
DONOVAN: Now the way they would do that is through your website?
STEVE: Yep.
DONOVAN: What’s your website address?
STEVE: Yeah, it’s reignitehope.com and if you just click on ‘Volunteer’, there’s little space to type in there and say, “Hey I’d love to do the lunch program” or “Hey, I want to learn to be a welding coach”, or whatever, just type it in.
If you say, “Hey I can’t do any of that, but I can give”. There’s a ‘Donate’ button on the website. All of that helps change lives
DONOVAN: So, you can find that at reignitehope.com?
STEVE: Reignitehope.com
DONOVAN: Great.
STEVE: And you can see on there some of our students’ stories. And you can see, get a real first-hand feel for what our program looks like, what it’s all about, and how life changing it is. We’ve got a bunch of student stories on there that you can watch on video.
And I think you’ll be really blessed to hear our own students, in their own words, tell what this meant in their lives.
DONOVAN: Well, that just sounds great, Steve. We here at Imperial really appreciate what you’re doing. We like the work you’re doing and we’re glad to be trying to help you out as we can here. And if anybody out there is listening is interested, please reach out to Steve and he’ll get you involved.
Thanks for coming on. We really appreciate it. We’re going to share a link to your website in this podcast, or on the YouTube page so people can get there that way. But just we’re looking forward to seeing how you guys grow and what you do, but I just want to say thanks again for coming on.
STEVE: Yeah.
DONOVAN: That’s it. Did you have anything else you wanted to say?
STEVE: Oh, just thanks Donovan. And again, if folks listening to this happen to be folks that pray, just keep us in your prayers. We’ve got opportunities coming up faster than we know what to do with them. We’re already in Philadelphia, The Philippines, and Brazil. Possibility we’ll be heading to Cambodia with ReIgnite Hope. Maybe Mexico with ReIgnite Hope. On top of that, we’ll probably start Dallas this year, maybe Las Vegas this year. Not to mention, having a second 18-wheeler all over Southern California.
So, we believe in prayer. We know it works. So, pray for us, if you would. We’d love to have that.
DONOVAN: Well, we appreciate that, Steve. So, everyone, thanks for listening. Thanks for coming on, Steve. If you guys are out there listening to this and you could find us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere else you can listen.
So once again, thanks for listening to Dusty Jobs Podcast. Stay healthy and stay safe.
ANNOUNCER: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs podcast. Breathe better, work safer.
For this episode of Dusty Jobs Podcast we meet on a video call with Dr. Chris Cloney. Chris is the owner of DustEx Research Ltd and also the host of Dust Safety Science Podcast. Chris is an expert in the research and safety of combustible dust. Today we meet up to talk to Chris about how he got into his field of combustible dust. Also we discuss the history of industry and how people view and handle combustible dust. We talk about the importance of taking care of any concern and the dangers of ignoring the warning signs. We hope to get together again with Dr. Chris Cloney to do a deeper dive on the different aspects of combustible dust and combustible dust safety. To learn more about Chris and the Dust Safety Science Podcast visit: https://dustsafetyscience.com/
Intro: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems, industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
Donovan: Hello, welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Glad you guys could all be with us today. We have very special guest, Chris Cloney. He’s joined us remote. How you doing today?
Chris: I’m doing great. How are you guys doing?
Donovan: Oh, we’re doing great. We’re doing great. We’re so we typically have people in the studio, but Chris you’re actually located up in Canada. Correct?
Chris: Yeah, you got it. I was in Nova Scotia up until two weeks ago. And now we’re in Ontario. We just moved the whole family here, which is why I have a completely blank office with no furniture in it and sound echo-y. But we’re up here and
Donovan: That’s how it goes. Or you still have probably have boxes laying all over the place, huh?
Chris: Yes. Just not on camera.
Donovan: There you go. There you go. Now, the reason we have Chris on today is Chris also has his own podcast. The name of your podcast is
Chris: Dust Safety Science podcast,
Donovan: Dust Safety Science podcast. Yeah, it’s a phenomenal resource. We’ve been listening to it for a while here over at Imperial Systems. You’ve even had Jeremiah, Jeremiah, one of the owners of our company on your guys’ podcast. And we’re just glad to be able to talk to you today and learn a little more about what your podcast is about and how that might be a resource for some of our listeners to learn more and be educated and have a, a safer workspace. So, but Chris, before we get into all that, tell me a little bit more about how you even got started on this thing. What got you… because I know when I was in high school, my guidance counselor, didn’t come up to me and say, hey, you know, one of the job options in the future is going to be a podcast about dust. You know, that wasn’t something that was on the board. So, what journey took you to where you’re at right now? What got you involved in all of this and got you interested in trying to teach people more about how to have a safer work environment?
Chris: Yeah, for sure. And if they did tell you that they probably didn’t say there were two podcasts on dusts. So, if you think there’s one and twos even more, I mean, I guess the best place to start is sort of where, who I am and where I’m at today. I’ll let you do the same sort of thing with the Dusty Jobs Podcast, because I think we’re going to play this as a crossover on the Dust Safety Science podcasts, and then people will know where to go. So, my official title, I guess, Dr. Chris Cloney I’m the owner of DustEx research limited, and we’re a company with a global focus on education, connection, change, and awareness for combustible dust safety. I’m the lead researcher there, I wear a number of hats and we have a number of platforms related to combustible dust.
So Dust Safety Science, which is where the podcast is hosted. We have the Dust Safety Academy for Education, Dust Safety professionals for connection, people can make requests there. Purell systems is a member company at Dust Safety professionals along with about 35 or 40 other companies globally. We help place those companies with and users that need them at the end of the day. So that’s sort of where I am today. It wasn’t quite in high school when I started, but it wasn’t really that far off either. So maybe we’ll get into that in a second, but I’ll let you explain what is the Dusty Jobs Podcast for somebody that’s listening to this on the Dust Safety Science podcast who wants to come over and check it out.
Donovan: Sure. Yeah. So, the Dusty Jobs Podcasts, something, we started new here at Imperial Systems. Our heart is to really just help get people educated on not just how to have a safer and cleaner and healthier work environment, but also just to give informational knowledge about you know, products that are out there, maybe services that can be done more of the holistic idea of having a dust collector in your facility and what that can do for you. And we started as an educational resource so that people can know more about what we have available here at Imperial Systems, but also just for anybody out there who might be trying to figure it out a little more about their own collector. We handle everything from filter information all the way up to service information. So, we’re still growing and figuring out our identity a little bit. We’re a little bit newer into this. You guys have about what 200 podcasts under your belt is that right?
Chris: We’re getting there, this when it comes out, we’ll be about 160 for our podcast going into our fourth year,
Donovan: Right? So, we’re in our second year, we have a little bit of a history, but not quite as much as you guys, so, but that’s us. So, you can see more on our website we’ll share at the end, www.imperialsystemsinc.com is where you can go to really learn more about our company. And we have our own YouTube page where there’s other videos that aren’t just our podcast, but lots of other information on there about more of us. So,
Chris: And just to kind of, to clarify, if someone’s listening to some Dust Safety Science and their trust and the Dusty Jobs Podcast, YouTube would be the best place to go to watch that, right. Cause you, you play the videos and you have the whole thing right now. You’re recording Everything on our YouTube channel.
Donovan: Yup. Yeah. Yup. Yup. So yeah. Great place to look us up. So
Chris: Cool. So, let’s, I mean, so this’ll be interesting hopefully for the Dusty Jobs audience and listeners that are listening when this comes out or listening, if you’re listening to this, you know, a few years in the future and I think will be interesting for the Dust Safety Science podcast audience, to hear me be interviewed, to hear some of the background and some of the insights into what we’re seeing with the different platforms that we’re running. So, Dom, when you asked about, you know, how did I get where I, where I am today, that we’re hard even doing this interview. It’s a really great question. So, I did my undergraduate degree in Mechanical Engineering. We have a thing called Cooperative Education and university here in Canada, where you can opt to work every eight months in industry make some money, which is really nice while you’re, while you’re a poor student and get some experience.
So my first co-op position was with a consulting company that was local in Halifax. I was looking at explosion and combustion science. So I was doing computer modeling, computational fluid dynamics developing software to analyze fires and explosions .in particularly looking at defense applications, so you know, high explosives, improvised, explosive devices effects on troops and structures and ships really trying to protect from things that go bang you know, quickly release a lot of energy, doing things like, you know, designing troop helmets to avoid traumatic brain injury or Xining tank armor to avoid improvised devices from being able to puncture the, the kind of whole the tank and things like that. So very high–
Donovan: So it’s a bit more in the defense realm is where you started learning about explosions and what causes them and how they react and interact with things. Right. Do I sum this up pretty good?
Chris: Yeah. You got to blast detonation, shockwave when you see the MythBusters blow something ups really large and you see that nice kind of shockwave go through the air and when they blow up a garbage truck or something like that that’s the sort of stuff we were doing, but on our, on our computers and the computer and simulating it. So
Donovan: That was like a kind of an internship is a way to put it right.
Chris: It was. So, I did three of those over the period of a couple of years in university we started up with that company afterwards worked there for better part of six or seven years. But while I was doing that, I started my graduate research. And my graduate research was in dust explosions. So combustible dust having it dispersed in the air when ignites a death integration can happen, which is the reaction front, moving through the cloud, that’s in the air. If that’s confined, you can have an explosion. And these are things that you see happen occasionally in dust collectors will say happened in processing vessels happen in industries that are handling combustible solids. I thought it’d be the exact same. I thought it’d be the same as high explosive or C4 things I realized before it turns out the combustible dust is completely different in terms of physics and chemistry and a lot more challenging as well, not less understood.
So that was my foray into combustible dust, but the other half of that equation is I really looked at this as being something that was industry relevant. So, you know, I’m doing this military application research was really great, but I felt like I could impact, you know, the lumber mill next door or the food processing facility down the street, or the rubber manufacturing facility through my industrial application combustible dust. And that’s when I sort of started making the switch from, okay, defense industry’s military applications. Let’s, let’s try to take that knowledge that’s there and translate it into understanding these combustible dust explosions and what they mean.
Donovan: So was it a, was there something that happened in your personal life that you were like, I’m just interested in this more or was it a was it an actual professional application that you were like, ah, I’m gonna want to see what this is like, not just from this military defense side, but you want to look into it or is it just kind of trying to expand your horizons? I don’t want to put any words in your mouth here. I’d love to know what made you go. I think I’d like to look into this more now.
Chris: Yeah, sure. I mean, there, there’s a couple things that sort of came together. One was just, again, looking and working in defense and trees for the better part of half a decade. I was looking for something that was, that was new and more well, not that I could talk to people at dinner parties about dust explosions, really, but if you think you can’t do that, you know, talk about designing helmets for traumatic brain injury and stuff it’s even harder. Trust me. So that was one part. I had a fantastic supervisor in Nova Scotia, Dr. Paul is a very well-known and respected in the field of the combustible dust and process safety. inherently safer design and hierarchy controls are sort of four of his main areas. So, he was just starting a nice sized research project with a number of masters students and PhD students that was also brought on by industry.
So we had four or five industry partners. So, sort of like this little collective of combustible dust in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The third piece is that we actually had quite a large coal mine explosion in 1992. So, I won’t exactly date myself, but I was, you know, less than 10 years old when that explosion happened. It was only about half an hour from my house. It, it took the live lives of all 26 minors at the time. So, something like that it wasn’t in my community, but the community was in, no, they’re still reeling from it today. No more Jobs, larger employer gone 26 families with 26 missing sons or fathers, depending on the age. And, and there was that whole range. So, when I started thinking about that, it’s like, wow, this is something that can actually impact what we’re doing. Day-To-Day more than the military defense applications. So those three things kind of came together to really start me down the path of, okay, well, let’s talk about combustible dust and industry relevant applications with that.
Donovan: Yeah. That’s, that’s really interesting. Some personal, personal exposure, some professional exposure, and then just kind of the right place at the right time with that fellowship that was happening with those people. That’s, that’s very interesting. Yeah. There you go. So, so then what got you started in your podcast? I mean, this is, because this is really where we’re both at right now. We’re talking about this. So, you went from doing this research to what made you say, man, I want to get this out there so other people can be hearing about it and learning about it. What, what caused you to do that?
Chris: Yeah, so I was, I had about two years left in my PhD when I was when I sort of got started with this. And I had traveled around the world to multiple countries. Talk about combustible dust in my research. You know, countries like Poland and Norway and here in the United States. And I kind of inter I realized a couple of things at once. So, I think there’s sort of two scenarios at once. I was doing this really, what I thought was awesome. Research will say really interesting research in the physics and chemistry of dust explosions. But if I talked to an industry person, like it just, it didn’t, it didn’t really throw with it didn’t really resonate. It was like, I was looking at different questions than they wanted answered. So, the different stakeholders in combustible dust, and you have a few, you have researchers, you have end-users, you have equipment suppliers and manufacturers, insurance, government inspectors research institutions like say the chemical safety board or others. I kind of saw that there’s all these groups, but nobody hung out together. No one spoke the same language, no one was asking the same questions, even worse. No one was really answering the questions that the other stakeholders had. We are all sobered up in our own Spears sphere, their own sphere,
Donovan: Their own silos, everybody’s in their own silos of information and interests and nobody was putting them together.
Chris: Exactly. So that was, that was sort of scenario one. And then scenario two was just, when I looked at loss history, it was always either you weren’t aware of the hazard, you didn’t have the right knowledge and education to defend against the hazard, if you were aware of it. And if you had those two, you didn’t know who to talk to get your solution solved. So, it was awareness, education, and connection, which oddly enough, now I look back five years and we create all these platforms. It’s one, one communication platform for awareness. That’s the podcast one education platform, that’s the dust safety academy and one connection platform that does safety professionals. So, it was like these three gaps were the things that were needed to progress safety moving forward.
Donovan: Yeah. Cause some, some people out there might not even know they’re in a situation where they, they need protection. Some people might be in a situation where they need protection, but they’re not sure how to get it or exactly what that looks like. And some people might be, you know, just trying to figure out how to, if they are in a situation where they’re just trying to get an education on, you know, is, is what I’m doing daily in my workshop gonna cost me or someone else harm. And
Chris: We say four pillars, awareness, knowledge, connection, and change. So gotta be aware of the hazard. You gotta know what is, so it’s not downplayed. You need to know who you can go to, to solve your problem. And at the end of the day, the tools to be able to, to elicit change, whether that’s cultural change, whether that’s change about money spent in your organization, whether that’s changing government organizations and their interpretation or approaches they all sort of drive to that point. You to spirit actually making facilities safer. I should’ve, I should’ve said this at the outset, but Dust Safety Science and DustEx research, our, our mission, our vision for the, what we’re doing in the world is to see a year with zero fatalities worldwide by 2038. So, within 20 years of creating the company not sort of the underlying thing that I that’s, the lens, we look at, everything we do with would this project task platform discussion thing we’re doing next contribute to, to potentially reducing a life lost from combustible dust explosions. And this discussion will cause it’s a new audience, it’s a new group to, to show what kind of things we’re creating to educate folks and connect folks.
Donovan: Yeah. Yeah. So, so that’s kind of where the podcast came from and where it is currently and all the different platforms in which you can get educated and get connected. So, when we’re talking about that and we’re thinking about that, what do you think that the future of like, let’s talk about where the industry used to be when you started this to where we are now? Because I think every year, we’re getting safer, we’re putting things in place. There is more education, there is more resources, there’s more knowledge on what helps industry, individuals, people. What, what would you say is the biggest thing you’ve seen over the time you’ve been doing this that’s really changed the most in the industry?
Chris: It’s, it’s interesting. And we sort of had a conversation about this before. There, there is a lot of activity right now in combustion, less, and it’s really important to see it’s really you know, great to see. When I think back the most recent cult, the, the most recent Renaissance in combustible dust dates back to 2006, with the release of the, of a report by the chemical safety board it’s something like combustible dust report. I can’t remember exactly what the title is. They released a report that looked at three incidents in 2003 west pharmaceuticals, haze Lemmers and CTA acoustics that were all major multi vitality incidents. They released that report in 2007. So, a year later OSHA came up with they’re out with their new national emphasis program for combustible dust. Literally while that was sitting on the desks and been distributed at companies throughout the United States, including bureau sugar. So that was released in October, 2007, bureau sugar happened in February, 2008. And they, they found memos internal and bureau of sugar talking about national emphasis program and not connecting the dots that could apply to them. And that, that explosion killed 14 workers and injured 36.
Donovan: And that could have potentially been even bigger. But during the timeframe, when that happened, you know what I mean? Luckily there wasn’t as many people working.
Chris: Yeah. And so that’s, and then, then we have a whole bunch of things have happened since then that are really important to discuss important, to talk about and important to push forward. But the kind of the, the, to look back a little bit, it’s kind of interesting to see the history. And I’ve often thought that we should write it that maybe I should write a history book and combustible dust, but the first regulation for sugar dust came out in 19 24, 19 24 regulations of the national board of fire underwriters for the pulverizing systems for cocoa and sugar. And like the introductory paragraph is these regulations are issued to eliminate or reduce hazards inherent in the manufacturer, pulverized sugar, particularly hazardous ignition is essential that there should be no escape of dust into the atmosphere of the room, a condition of favorable to a dust explosion, to rapid propagation of fire 24,
Donovan: The 1924, they knew they should be collecting this stuff. And it was, as I said that.
Chris: And so I’ll read you some, like I’m not going to go through, well, I’ve already went through a bit of a diatribe, but I’m not gonna go too much, but there’s a section housekeeping, good housekeeping is one of the most important factors apparatus, which will not leak and permit the escape of dust or sifting out of cocoa because it covered cocoa and sugar is essential. All dust here. Another section, all dust collectors shall be constructed through non-combustible materials, all dust collectors. If you use connection with the polarizing system, if not located outside the building, Shelby located within the pulverizing department shall be properly vented to a safe point outside the building. I mean, it was a hundred years ago. So, the, the reason I bring this up is there’s actually been at least three, maybe four Renaissance of combustible dust just in the United States. There’s this most recent one, 2008 ish, 1970 to 1980.
There was the grain handling standard that was a created after a number of grain silo explosions in particular, they had, I think, five in a three month period that killed 70 or 80 workers in 1977. That was the, that was the second, most recent one. The one before that is the 1920s that was actually driven by insurers. They were seeing all their insured facilities blow up and they were, and that’s why they came home with this standard. Like, well, we got to stop this. And then there’s probably at least one more with coal mining in the United States and late 18 hundred. So, we see these peaks and valleys and peaks and troughs, but the most interesting part is that every country in every industry goes through these peaks and troughs at different times. So just in the last three years, there’s there was a large explosion, poor Akwaaba port of Akwaaba and Jordan.
We covered that on our podcast on episode 13. So, 130 episodes go with Allie outlast gallery was the incident investigator that caused them to audit all of their silos in the country of Jordan and try to come up with a, a grain handling standard. Same thing happened in Zimbabwe that same year. This year we had an explosion in Singapore that within, so the explosion happened in vault potato starch. It happened in February by March. They had inspected 500 companies in Singapore on combustible dust. And by may, they come up with SS 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 2020 code of practice for handling storage and processing of combustible dust. So, every country in every industry is going through these waves at different times. And the real big challenge at the end of the day. And the reason I go through the big diatribe is we tend to rewrite the whole thing from scratch every time and not realizing that that the stuff was created before or the stuff is created by in another country. So, translating knowledge, translating information, we’re, we’re sort of net writing new. And that’s why I love the podcast is why I love the Dusty DAS podcast, too. It’s all about how do you take these experiences and translate them from one to another, which is much more effective in facilitating change than writing another are doing. I say, writing another standard proposal lessons. This is probably a ton of them going on right now, but then writing something that’s net new translation, that’s better than, than doing that.
Donovan: And it’s it, you’re right. There’s so much knowledge, so much information out there that we can share now and with the internet and with all the different resources we have, we can take that information that we have already figured out in some situations and transfer another one. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do here is, you know, give people we don’t want a tragedy to happen, which caused people to go look for an answer we’re trying to help provide answers before that happens so that we can avoid more tragedies in the future. I think that’s the harder what you guys are doing in the heart of what we’re doing here. But so, what do you think the future of the industry is? I mean, do you think there’s going to be more of this, hopefully cross-cultural information that’s getting shared and that, or what do you see? What do you see the future of dust collection and safety industry? Where do you think it’s?
Chris: Yeah, I mean, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about the future a bit. And while we do that, I’ll pull up some, some other notes about some, maybe words of caution in the current global system that we’re in. So, the, the future-looking sort of notes are that just like you said, the biggest thing is to avoid the trough. So, we know that we go through peaks and valleys. There’s a couple of ways we can, we can solve that. One is to work collaborative with other industries in other countries. So that the whole global community doesn’t go through a trough at the same time. You know, when some, when Singapore is creating new standards, like they are this year, literally right now they’re training their country on these new standards. Well then maybe we should be listening and maybe we should be working with them here in north America and Canada or Argentina or wherever it is.
So just allowing that global communication to happen from one group to another soar, eliminates or smooths out all these peaks and valleys, everyone’s going through it. And just talking about sharing the stories also gets rid of those peaks. So, we can, we can make the most recent Renaissance. The last one that goes, it goes down again, and everybody forgets about it until something bad happens. I mean, that’s really the solution. There’s lots of technological things going on. You know, we, I call it the, the dust safety hexagon, if we need, need, need another geometric shape in our world, which some people would say, maybe we don’t, but it’s, it’s two sides with three on each side. So, it contained collect clean. That’s how you prevent explosions outside devices, contain it inside the processing vessel collected at the point sources where you can’t and clean up any dust that remains and then prevent protect, isolate. Those are your technological solutions, how to refrain explosion inside and outside equipment. There’s whole bunch of there hours and hours of discussion we had on all those topics.
Donovan: Oh yeah. And there’s tons of products to help with all of that, to products and procedures that can for the guy who’s out there listening to this and scaling, wow, there’s, I’m getting flooded with information, you know, there’s a lot of squats you can start with just, you know, even if you’re just looking at a pile and go, man, there’s a lot of sod us underneath this. I should probably sweep it up. Or there’s, you know, there’s, this, this shouldn’t be sitting around the collector. The collector should be collecting the material. If you have a leak in your collector, that’s a good secondary ignition source that, you know, you should be collecting. So, for just the guy who’s out there listening maybe he doesn’t have everything figured out, but there’s definitely places you can start. And I think that’s what we’re thinking about in the future.
Helping people find a starting point that they can start moving forward through and, you know, listen to some of your information and some of the stuff we’ve had gone in the past here, that could be a really good place to start. If you’re listening to the first time you’re going, man, I haven’t even thought about some of this stuff that would be a great place to start is maybe going back into some of the topics that you guys have covered, we’ve covered getting connected with your group socially with the connections that you guys have and some education that you guys can provide on just how to handle some of that stuff. But I couldn’t agree. I think you’re right. Yeah. I think you’re right. We’re just going to see some waves keep going, but hopefully our future is getting that information out there so everybody can use it together and we can try to help other people prevent making some mistakes that have already happened in other areas.
Chris: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more in the, the, the key, if you want to change someone’s behavior is to have the right message at the right time using the right language that they use in their own head. So, if it’s not the right language, they won’t care. If it’s not the right message at the right time, they also won’t care. So, there’s someone that looks, there’s someone that works at saw mill right now. And, and they have dust throughout the entire facility, which actually is pretty common. I’m willing to bet if there’s field, if there’s 10 people that are working sawmills and, and, and listening to podcasts, seven of them have this, this currently at their facility go dust safety, science.com/two. Our second podcast episode is lessons learned from Tucson, us fires at New Brunswick lumber mill. You can go to in 2012, we had two lumber mill explosions in British Columbia that were both multiple fatality explosions back-to-back at different sites like hours apart.
So after the first one, people were saying, all this never happens, right? Like it’s, it was completely discounted. And then another one happened and that’s really influenced work safe, BC WorkSafe, British Columbia’s approach, combustible dust. They really take it a proactive approach over the years. Just a few years ago, there’s a very large lumber mill explosion in the UK. And the, the owner of the mill is up for manslaughter charges right now. I think the trial just finished. But so, you know, so those seven to 10 people, there’s a couple of resources to think about when you start you know, trying to, when that creeps in your head, the oldest won’t happen here, or this can’t happen here. It’s just, you know, they’re infrequent events and that’s the biggest challenge is to keep that level of what do they call it?
Donovan: Complacency.
Chris: Yeah. Well, the opposite of complacency. Yeah. Try to keep that level of susceptibility high. Like they, you still feel that, okay, this is a possibility here. Cause I guarantee everyone that’s ever been injured and we’ve talked to a lot of them on the Dust Safety Science podcast in an explosion fortunate. We don’t get to talk to the people that don’t make it. But we do get talk to their families and we’ve had several interviews with like that on the podcast. But nobody that was in a dust explosion went to work that day thinking, hey, this is the day. Or they just wouldn’t have went. So, nobody thinks that this stuff’s going to happen. They’ll think, you know, it’s not going to happen to me or, or they don’t have the awareness and knowledge, the connection, or the ability to make change at their facility. If they thought they would stay home.
Donovan: Yeah. That’s what you’re here for. That’s what we’re here for to try to help people prevent that from happening. We don’t want, we don’t want anybody’s they at work to be their last day at work unless they’re retiring, you know, that’s it. So, but Chris, I just want to say, thanks for coming on. Is there anything else you want to share about where people can find you guys or where they can learn more about what you got on? I know this isn’t gonna be the last time we’re going to have you on here. We’ll probably have you on for a couple of deep dives into some topics that we can really talk about. Maybe get into more wood dust or something like that. I know we’re, we’re hoping to have you on again, to talk about more specifics, but it was great getting to know you and introduce you to our audience. And hopefully your audience is going to feel the same about what we’re doing over here, but what’s some places, some people could find you or reach out to you or look for you on online or whatever.
Chris: I mean the best thing, cause I, I know this audience is tuning into a podcast already, Cisco, that Dust Safety Science podcast. You can you start at one it’s we got a boat, 300 200 hours, probably a material on there. So, he started at one to start working your way through. If you have a lot of driving in your job, it’s probably more effective to start searching through topics and find one that’s relevant to you. So, whether or not it’s a, you know, a story from a worker who has been involved in your health and safety manager, and you want to understand that scenario, if it’s a technological issue, we are, our podcast goes into the details. So, we’ll cover things like what do you do if there’s too many concrete silos too close together? How do you, how do you protect that system?
How do you, you know, and then everything, we have stuff from, you know, education and the history. And we talk about after, after 150 episodes, you really got too diverse what you’re talking about. So that’d be the best place to go through that save science podcasts. If you need help and support at your facility, if needed a dust hazard analysis done, which we even talk about, it’s hard to imagine. We did a whole podcast on combustible dust in north American. Didn’t say DHA at least once, but we’ll talk more about that next. So, I’m sure you know, if you need DHA, you need testing. Anything like that does say professionals, you go there, we’ll get you set up one of our member companies just in a matter of hours or days for getting your project movement. So those are the best place to catch me.
Donovan: Great. Great. Yeah. And if you’re more interested in a dust hazard analysis, I’m sure you guys have some podcasts on those. We have a podcast in the past about deserts and analysis, so you can go back and look that up. And if you’re like, what does that even mean? I can go back and, and see what that’s all about, but that’s a really important thing. I just want to say thanks for coming on. Thanks for everything that you guys are doing over there. We appreciate it. And we’re looking forward to having some more conversations with you. If you’re interested in learning more about us, you can follow us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. We’re on all of those. So, thanks for tuning into the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Everyone out there just stay healthy and stay safe and we’ll look forward to talking to you next time.
Chris: Awesome. Thanks Donovan. And appreciate the work that Imperial Systems are doing and appreciate this podcast. Keep it up.
Donovan: You too Chris.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Breathe better, work safer.
A company that uses specialized lens grinding machines for prescription lens fabrication had a dust problem. These machines require dust collection to keep the lenses clear of debris while they grind and further polish the prescription into the lenses. For this specific customer, the problem was the production facility in which they are located. They had very little space to fit a dust collector capable of filtering the air properly. The location was in an old building in New York City. It had low ceilings and small entrance doors to bring in a machine.
This lens grinding dust collector had to meet three physical requirements. First, it had to be less than 12’ in total height. Second, it had to be able to be unloaded and installed without the use of overhead cranes. Finally, it had to fit in a small footprint in the corner of a room. The dust collector also had minimum requirements for airflow and a low air-to-cloth ratio. This would ensure that the filters would clean properly and release the dust being collected.
The Dust Collection Solution
Imperial Systems Inc. has a wide selection of dust collector sizes and styles to meet customers’ needs. This application was tricky because the space available didn’t fit a standard-style dust collector. Territory Manager Justin Ferrainola worked closely with in-house engineering and the customer. They devised a plan to combine some features of the CMAXX Dust & Fume Collector with those of the Shadow Compact Fume Extractor to create a solution. Imperial makes standard dust collector styles and has a full engineering staff to develop custom dust collectors for tricky applications.
The CMAXX provided was a two-filter cartridge model with premium DeltaMAXX Prime filters. It has a custom abrasion-resistant side inlet. A special “Shadow Style” discharge bucket was included to accept disposable bags for waste. Imperial also provided removable fork pockets. These allowed the customer to squeeze the unit into the location with a small forklift. All of this was done to meet the customer’s tricky size and height restrictions.
The Results
The customer was able to mount the unit exactly how they intended it. They also have more filter media area in less space than offered by all the competition. This provides longer filter life and superior performance. They were also very impressed with the build quality of this unit given its overall size and design. Custom design work flexibility is just one of the many features that set Imperial Systems apart from the competition.
Donovan interviews our new guest Joe Hunt for this episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Joe talks about his history in the filter industry. Joe goes over the different parts of a filter and how to spot a cheap filter. He also explains the difference in filter medias and what to look for when picking a filter for your application.
Narrator: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems, industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
Donovan: Hello, welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Glad to have you with us today. In the studio is Joe Hunt. How are you doing Joe?
Joe: Fantastic today, Donovan. Thanks for having me here.
Donovan: Great. Joe’s actually our very own Imperial Joe here. And Joe, tell us about yourself. You’ve been helping out with filters for, man, how long now? How long have you been doing this filter game?
Joe: Now you’re going to date me Donovan, come on now, you know, I’ve been in the industrial air filtration market for over 25 years, going back to the nineties
Donovan: Yeah, so you have a little bit of knowledge in this field.
Joe: A little bit of knowledge on the filter side of the business here, for sure.
Donovan: And that’s what Joe’s here talking to us about today he is going to be talking about I think we’re going to call this Filters 101.
Joe: I like that.
Donovan: Yeah. Just, for anybody out there, who’s trying to maybe understand a little bit more about the filters that are going into their dust collector. Maybe you’ve been tasked with getting a new set of filters or something like that. We’re going to try to help give you a little bit more knowledge of what you’re looking at because man, this, this doesn’t come up often for a lot of people maybe once a year or every two years. Right?
Joe: Yeah, it could be anywhere from six months to a year or two and sometimes in gas turbine, we’ve seen them run for eight to 10 years and it’s a little bit of a different industry, but those filters are being used there as well
Donovan: Right. So, if this is your first time buying or you’re just trying to figure out what you’re looking at that’s what this we’re going to be talking about today. So, Joe, tell us a little bit more about yourself. You’re here, you came on board with Imperial and you’re really helping. What aspect are you helping out with here?
Joe: I’m working on really a business development working on a channel distribution, trying to expand that portion of the business with Imperial, for aftermarket, dust collection filters. My experience goes back to… I started out with Donaldson and that was more of the media side of the business. Worked there for seven years in and took a job with Clarcor and started up their cartridge business at Clark filter. And that’s where really the cartridge portion of the aftermarket really started to grow.
Donovan: Yeah. So, you mentioned that you used to do media. So, when we’re talking about media, we’re not talking about, you know television or things. We’re talking about filter media.
Joe: Filter media, filtration media.
Donovan: That’s right. So, that’s the actual material that goes in the filters. That’s what’s doing the filtering.
Joe: Correct.
Donovan: But there’s gosh, how many different types are they out there?
Joe: Many, many different types, you start off with a paper type of media, and then you can go all the way up to different types of exotics, you know, where you go from low temperature, low efficiency to high temperature, high-efficiency types of exotic materials that are out there. So, different ones that are coming out each year.
Donovan: So, exotics would be for a very specific application?
Joe: Right, very niche market.
Donovan: Gotcha. So, probably if you’re buying that filter, you’d know a little more about that. So, let’s just talk about what are the basic medias that people might be run into? When someone’s out there, like I said, maybe they’re trying to buy a filter for the first time, or they’re looking at a collector and they’re trying to decide what’s best for their application. What are some of the more basic ones that people get into?
Joe: What we see mainly are what is considered a paper type filter, and this would be a filter made of 80% cellulose and 20% polyester. Okay, and then you have different variations of that. So, you have the 80/20 paper and an 80/20 FR, which is fire retardant. And then from there that is the lower level that’s more of a commodity type media, and then you go from there and you start upgrading. And from that point, that’s the lowest cost, but the lowest efficiency as well, and the lower performing filter from there, we start stepping up, we go from there to a nanofiber, nanofiber with FR and then that’s for more tougher applications.
Donovan: So, you’re saying nanofiber?
Joe: Nanofiber.
Donovan: I mean, what is that? What does that mean for somebody who doesn’t know what that means at all?
Joe: Nanofiber is a coating that they put over the top of a certain type of substrate, which would in this case be an 80/20 paper. So, what it is a very fine nylon fiber that goes over… It’s invisible to the human eye. So, it’s only a couple of microns wide. And what it does is it really puts a surface coating on that media.
Donovan: So, wait, let me ask you a question really quick. When you say micron now, that’s I mean, I know that’s a unit measurement, but give me something to compare a micron to.
Joe: All right. So, a coarse human hair is about 80 microns. So, if you take your hair, pull it out and look at it. It’s about 80 microns. These, fiber diameters are maybe two-micron, one micron. So, you can’t see it with…
Donovan: Almost 80 times smaller than your hair.
Joe: Yes, yes.
Donovan: Okay. All right. So, we have our basic paper and then we’re putting this material that is so small you couldn’t even see it without a microscope on top of it.
Joe: That’s right
Donovan: And that’s called nanofiber.
Joe: It’s nanofiber coding.
Donovan: And it does?
Joe: Well, what it does is it protects that paper. It keeps the dust from penetrating into your paper. So, all of these filters that we manufactured, the collectors that we manufacture are back pulsing style collectors. And what we want to do is we want to keep that dust on the outside of the filter. So, when we’re back pulsing, the dust blows off, drops down into the hopper.
Donovan: So, the pulse goes on the inside of the filter and knocks everything.
Joe: Knocks all the dust off.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: So, what this does is it allows a natural dust cake so that the particles don’t penetrate the paper. And it’s kind of like your Teflon frying pan. You know what I mean? Your egg is an there it slides around. It’ll keep that dust on the outside pulse boom. Drop it in.
Donovan: So, you’re saying if I, if I got the nanofiber material on it, it’s going to help that filter clean off better, and hopefully lasts a little longer.
Joe: It’ll definitely last longer than a standard commodity 80/20 paper.
Donovan: Right?
Joe: Absolutely.
Donovan: So, if there’s somebody out there and they’re seeing really short life out of their filters, possibly this could be a solution to help them have a longer life out of it.
Joe: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s one of the best available technologies we have out on the market right now in filtration media. Now that’s not to say we’re not working on new medias to bring to the market, but right now the nanofiber is very useful for many different applications.
Donovan: So, what’s some, dust that I would say, I don’t want to use this regular 80/20 paper on, but I should definitely be thinking about doing this nanofiber and what would be an example of something that would be, oh man, you don’t want to use regular 80/20?
Joe: Well, the 80/20 is great for general uses. You know, when you have particle sizes that are much larger. So, you’ve got wood dust, cement stuff where you have very large particles. Now, when you get into welding, weld fume, plasma, laser cutting that’s where you’re going to have smoke, which is very, very small particle sizes. And the nanofiber is head and shoulders performance level over an 80/20 in those types of applications. So, if you have a sub-micron anything less than 10-micron particle size, you definitely want to use a nanofiber.
Donovan: So, not only is it clean and better, but it’s helping capture better also.
Joe: Your emissions go way down.
Donovan: Oh, wow.
Joe: Yep. Absolutely.
Donovan: Now, okay. So, we got those two, now you’re talking about, now I’ve heard this term out there and a lot of people ask me about it and it’s MERV, the MERV of the filter. Now there’s a MERV rating on filters. And I know this is a term that gets thrown around a lot in the industry and maybe you can unpack what that means for someone who’s just trying to figure this out for the first time.
Joe: Yeah, so, the MERV rating, I mean, it goes back to the ASHRAE 52.2 test and it is a static test and it was really developed more for the residential type of HVAC type of filters. Where they are non-pulsable filters, so, it’s a static test where you have a media and you present air, and then you present particles into the air stream. And then you test how efficient the filter media performs against those different sized particles. So, the less efficient you have a lower MERV rating.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: So, it starts down at a low MERV six, and then as you move upwards in efficiency where our media is like a commodity type 80/20, like we talked about earlier. That’s going to be about a MERV 10, somewhere around there, nine and 10. And then as you move into the nanofibers, there are different varieties out there, but our nanofibers, are MERV 15. So, the efficiency definitely takes a rise when you add that coating of nanofiber to the filter.
Donovan: So, the larger, the MERV rating,
Joe: The more efficient…
Donovan: The more efficient it is.
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: The lower the MERV rating,
Both: The less efficient.
Donovan: So, like when I get my furnace filter in my house.
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: That’s going to be like a six or a seven, just kind of in a catch that cat hair and the lint going through.
Joe: Correct.
Donovan: But if I’m trying to get weld smoke …
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: That furnace filter is not going to do it for me.
Joe: Nope. It’ll go right through it.
Donovan: Right. So, that’s where they came up with this standard of MERV to try to help…
Joe: Minimum efficiency rating value is what it stands for.
Donovan: Now, something else you said that when they test this, it’s on just a static system. It’s just how much can actually get caught in it. It’s not…
Joe: Yeah. So, it’s not actually like our filters are being back pulsed during the life of the system of the filter itself. This test is just a static, where there is no back pulsing taking place. So, it gives you a good initial efficiency rating, but it doesn’t give you that true look into how that filter is going to perform in the field.
Donovan: So, is there not to get too deep into the weeds? Cause we’re on 101, not getting into the advanced levels here.
Joe: That’s right.
Donovan: Is there other…?
Joe: There is an ASHARE, 199 out there that will test, a filter based on the performance in a dust collector.
Donovan: Okay. So, this would be a separate test, a separate form of measurement.
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: To give you a rating on maybe of a dust collector filter, as opposed to just like a…
Joe: It, could give you the performance of the collector and the filter.
Donovan: Got it. So, it’s kind of has, it’s like a hand in glove situation.
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: I got you,
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: So, if you’re really getting into it maybe when Joe comes on next time if we do a 102, we can do a…
Joe: 102.2.
Donovan: That’s right.
Donovan: We’ll get a little more into the weeds on that. So that’s great, that’s great. So, okay now I know if I’m going to buy a filter for the first time. I know what kind of material I’m looking at. I kind of understand my ratings now. Now I want to know when I’m looking at … I mean, I’m talking for someone who’s never bought a filter before, possibly. How are they going to know whether this filter that’s a is better than filter B or maybe this one’s $10 more than this one? How do I even tell what I’m getting and why should I pay more, 10 more dollars for it possibly?
Joe: Well, I mean, when you start.
Donovan: How do I evaluate that?
Joe: When you start looking at the filter, you’ve got end caps, you’ve got expanded metal inside, outside, you have bands you have different types of Plastisol.
Donovan: Wait, wait, wait.
Joe: Urethane,
Donovan: Slow, slow down. We got people here who probably never, ever heard. Maybe they’ve never seen a filter. So, you’re, you’re starting to talk about all…these are all the parts of the filter?
Joe: The components of the filter,
Donovan: Okay
Joe: The anatomy thereof.
Donovan: So, when someone’s looking at it, let’s, let’s start at the top and move down through. So, the first thing, if I’m looking at a filter is going to be the?
Joe: You’re probably going to look at the gasket.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: You’re gonna look at the gasket first and there are different types of gaskets.
Donovan: Now, that’s simple. That’s going to be the seal on the top.
Joe: That the filter is going to seal into the tube sheet against,
Donovan: Or press against another filter.
Joe: Or press against another filter.
Donovan: Ok so we are going to look at that. So, when I’m looking at that, what am I looking for?
Joe: So, there are different types. Polyisoprene is a standard, but what you want to see is you want to see a nice closed pore gasket.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: Something that’s going to have some good memory to it. All right, something, that’s not gonna, once you push it against that tube sheet, it’s not going to form a very small and tight gasket. You want a very nice seal. You want that to expand. You want to be able to pull it out in that gasket to still have some expansion to it absolutely. The next thing you’re looking at is the end caps.
Donovan: Okay. That’s what the gasket going on? That’s the piece of metal.
Joe: That’s the gasket sitting on a piece of metal, that’s holding the filter together. Okay. And the filters that we make here all have metal end cap end caps on either side. And what that does is it allows the paper or the media inside the filter to be potted.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: So, you’ve got a cap on either side. Now, while we can get into all the different types of caps out there each OEM really has a different style.
Donovan: I got you.
Joe: And that’s a tough part of being in the aftermarket is we have to specialize in all these different types of filters that are out there, but getting back to the, to the caps. You know, to see a good filter, you want a nice heavy cap. You know, there are, there are, there are ways to save money while manufacturing. But one thing Imperial does is we, we go all out, we are building tanks here. So, we have nice deep caps so that we can get the potting compound in there and we’re not skimping on that potting compound. You’re seeing the media.
Donovan: So, we’re talking about the end cap. And then, so it’s kind of like a rim around the top.
Joe: A rim around the top.
Donovan: And the bottom, and now you’re using this word potting compound.
Joe: Correct
Donovan: That now what is that? Is that the…?
Joe: So, we’re using a urethane. It is a glue. You can think about it. It’s a urethane that we take the cap and now we fill the cap up with urethane. And then we put the media down into the cap.
Donovan: It’s like planting the media into the thing. So, potting compound, I don’t know if that’s where they came up with that.
Joe: It’s like potting a plant.
Donovan: Yeah. Like potting a plant.
Joe: There you go.
Donovan: Potting the media.
Joe: Absolutely.
Donovan: I got you. I’m with you. I’m tracking. Okay. So then, there’s one that goes on the top. There’s one that goes on the bottom and then this potting compound. I mean, can I even tell, like how would I know what I’m looking at? Or is there something I should be looking at when I see that?
Joe: Well, you just want to make sure, like, what we do here is we put plenty of potting compound in there. You want to see it rise to the top of the cap because it has to enclose each pleat of that media or else, you’re going to get bypass. And that’s what happens with some of these filters, they’ll go into the field and they won’t be potted correctly either they’re using, you know off-brand caps or they’re not putting enough either plastisol or urethane in their potting compound. And you can get bypass, we’re talking about, you know airstreams with sub-micron particles in it. You have to make sure that that filter is potted on both ends and that all those pleats are secure held in there so that there’s no leakage.
Donovan: So, that’s, that’s just another place that everything needs to be sealed up. Well, so it’s a potential fail point, I guess. So, to make sure if you’re looking at a filter for the first time, it’s your job, you’re out there and they’re saying, well, is this a good filter? That’s something you could look at, look down into the caps, looked into the pleats and see if there’s gaps. Or maybe it doesn’t look like it’s filled up all the way.
Joe: Correct.
Donovan: Those would be some good telltale signs…
Joe: That you have a good quality filter.
Donovan: Or you don’t.
Joe: Or you don’t.
Donovan: That’s right. So, then we have the top, we have the bottom and the middle is the…
Joe: The media, that’s the heartbeat. It’s the heartbeat of the filter. That’s the portion of the filter that’s doing all the work. So, that’s the filtering mechanism.
Donovan: Okay. But there’s, I mean, if there’s just media there, wouldn’t that filter just collapsed, is there anything that’s holding, giving it some structure?
Joe: It will because that media is, like you said, if it didn’t have any support mechanism, it would just collapse on itself. So, what we have is expanded metal, expanded steel on the inside because remember these things are getting back pulsed, but they’re also getting a lot of negative pressure.
Donovan: Oh, that’s true.
Joe: So, all that air, that dirty air is hitting the outside of the filter, the clean air is coming through the inside and going out through the system. So, yeah, we have expanded metal on the inside and it gives a nice sturdy …it’s like a spinal cord to the filter.
Donovan: I got you.
Joe: Yeah, absolutely.
Donovan: Yes, the rigidity.
Joe: The rigidity of the filter. And, that’s very important to have a nice heavy interior core, what we call an inner core of the filter. Now you talk about the intercore we got to talk about the outer. Cause again, you’re getting that negative pressure, which could collapse a filter, and then you’re having these filters back pulse with 90 sometimes you’ve ramped up to a hundred PSI. So, you need something to keep that filter from ballooning. Gotcha. So, we talk about expanded inner, we have expanded outer as well. And then we’ve got other options where we have a nice cording, a helix cording machine that puts a cord around it. Some more open than an expanded steel outer. So, it allows the filter to clean a little better, but what it does is it keeps the filter together and allows for it to still clean without ballooning and exploding.
Donovan: Now I’ve seen that on, on the filters here. It’s almost like a shoelace, it like wraps it around so that it keeps it, but it’s still you’re right. It leaves a lot of the material exposed so that you can …now some of them have, I’ve seen them with bands.
Joe: Correct.
Donovan: That’s another method.
Joe: That’s another method. You can have a polyester nylon woven bands on the outside.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: And then there’s the actual metal, like you said too now is the reason for doing it one way or the other, could that come down to the application if someone’s saying, well, how do I know which one do I need?
Joe: Yeah. It is more application specific. The outer expanded normally is used in an application where you have finer dust. When you get to a more fibrous dust, you want to use something that’s more open and that’s where you would use the banding or the cording. And really in all honesty, you could use the cording all the time.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: I mean, it does give that good support and it allows it to clean. I think in what we have seen here, it cleans better than the outer expanded.
Donovan: Well, that’s good news because the cleaner, your filter is the longer it’s going to run. Right?
Joe: Yeah. Well, we don’t want them to last too long Donovan.
Donovan: Well, that brings up a great question. How do I know when it is time to change my filter? I mean, should I open the door and look at it? Is that going to help me? What’s the way to tell?
Joe: Most places will have a PM set up and they’ll change at a certain pressure drop. So, as these filters are being loaded over a certain period of time pressure’s building up in the system. So, they are, they start out clean. So, it’s a low pressure drop over time, the dust is building up. The filter is losing its performance and your pressure drop will rise. And some, companies will have it set at eight inches of water gauge to change the filter out or 10. Normally we see between six and eight is where you would change your filter. But in reality, when you really want to change your filter to some of those gauges, we’ve seen in the past have gone off. Where your pickup point is, this is very important when you are not picking up. So, if you have a grinding or, or a welding application and you are not evacuating that dust or smoke, or it’s very little evacuation, that’s when you want to seriously start looking at changing your filter.
Donovan: Now when you’re talking about looking at that pressure, am I looking at that when the machine is running, when it’s not running, like before it cleans, after it cleans when do, I actually… When’s the best time to evaluate that?
Joe: When it’s running.
Donovan: Okay.
Joe: Absolutely.
Donovan: And then, when it’s cleaning or when it’s not cleaning, when it’s done cleaning
Joe: Well however, the equipment is set up whether it’s on time or it’s on demand. Once that cleans, I mean, that’s just a millisecond time of a shot of 90 to a hundred PSI. So, that gauge is only going to move a little bit. It’s not going to drop from eight to four, you know, over time it could change. But after a quick cleaning cycle, it’s like a shotgun blast.
Donovan: I gotcha. I gotcha. So, if there’s a maintenance person out there listening to this and they’re thinking, oh man, I gotta, I put these new filters in and they open the door and they look at them and they’re like, I just heard it clean. And these things are covered in dust still is there something wrong with their filter? Are they using machine operating wrong or?
Joe: No? And we’ve, talked about this and we’ve had both of us have had calls before saying, hey, look at my filter’s dirty. These were supposed to be cleaned off. You know, you’re saying once it’s pulsing it’s supposed to clean off. Even when the filter’s in there and it’s in there for a certain period of time, it’ll establish a dust cake. So, it’s going to look dirty. The filter will look dirty and it’s just a natural dust cake on top of it and that’s kind of how it performs. And that helps along with say you have a nanofiber; you’ve got a natural dust cake on top of the nanofiber. It keeps those larger particles from penetrating and getting inside of the media itself.
Donovan: So, it’s actually helping the filter to work better. Once it gets, I know we call it seasoned or it has a little bit of the dust on it. That initial dust gets on it and it actually makes it work better.
Joe: It’ll get more efficient. Absolutely. Absolutely. Even a MERV 15, it will be more efficient once it gets what we’re talking about, seasoned or pre-coated or coated in the system. Absolutely.
Donovan: So, if you’re listening out there and you, and you got a brand-new filter and you open the door and you’re, you’re worried, don’t have a heart attack.
Joe: Its working.
Donovan: That’s right. That’s what it’s supposed to look like.
Joe: Absolutely.
Donovan: So, then basically your pressure and your pickup is going to let you know when you need to get a new filter, right?
Joe: Yes.
Donovan: So, those are the two key indicators if your operators are saying, hey, this thing is just not doing what it’s supposed to anymore, or if you’re watching your pressure gauge or monitoring that daily, that’s going to also give you a good key indicator on that specific unit.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s what it’s there for. It is to give you that heads up, like, hey, it’s time to change the filters. And your owner manual will tell you normally when that is, and each collector is different. Each application is different.
Donovan: Well, Joe, I just want to say thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. I know you got way more knowledge that we’re just scratching the surface here. So, if you’re listening to this and you have other filter questions or other, or need a filter feel free to call in we have a whole team of people here with a lot of knowledge and we’d be glad to help answer any other questions you have or if you need anything else. Like Joe said, we do build them here. We sell them here. So, we have a lot of knowledge in what we can help you out with. And that’s it just saying, thanks for coming on today.
Joe: No thanks. I can’t wait to come back for 102.2
Donovan: 102.2.
Joe: I’m really excited about the ice cream as well.
Donovan: That’s right.
Joe: You promised me ice cream.
Donovan: It’ll be coming after the show.
Joe: So, awesome Donovan, thank you.
Donovan: But I just wanna encourage everybody if you’re not doing it already to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter you can find us on iTunes and all of our old episodes are on YouTube also. So, I encourage you to like, and subscribe us there. So, until then stay healthy and stay safe. And we’ll talk to you next time.
Joe: Hit that like button
Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Breathe better, work safer.
For this episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast we had three visitors come from the Mercer County Career Center. They all gave us their thoughts on the Trades and how important they are to the growth of our country. We also talked about how it makes sense to come out of the Career Center with a trade and into a huge job market and start making money right out of high school.
Narrator: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems. Industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.
Donovan: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Today joining us is Lori Stainbrook, and she’s joining us from the Mercer County Career and Technical Center. Hi Lori, how are you doing today?
Lori: Great, great. How are you?
Donovan: Great. We were talking before this and your career title, your job title is so long, I just figured I’d let you introduce yourself. What do you do in there again?
Lori: I’m the Cooperative Education Coordinator at the Mercer County Career Center.
Donovan: Okay, and that means what? What are doing?
Lori: So essentially what I do is the students that are in their shops, they’re learning their skills and usually by their senior year, they’re prime and they’re ready to go out and find work. So we get them in and we address the soft skills. We get their resume together, their cover letter and we put it out there and find them a job.Sometimes they find their own job. So what I do is I just transition them into the work force, essentially.
Donovan: You’re taking them from- they’ve been learning these skills the whole time while they are at the Career Center, and you help them actually get out there into the real world?
Lori: Correct.
Donovan: So it’s that step, That first step possibly into somebody’s first adult careers, huh?
Lori: Correct, right.
Donovan: You’re helping them with that. That’s great. Now how long have you been doing that?
Lori: One year.
Donovan: One year?
Lori: I did it part time the year prior too, and of course we had COVID last year, so it was kind of an interesting year. But we got about forty students out in spite of of it being COVID.
Donovan: But you’ve been with the school for longer than that haven’t you?
Lori: I have, yes.
Donovan: How long have you been with the school?
Lori: Probably… it’s been twenty-four years.
Donovan: Oh, my goodness.
Lori: Twenty-four years.
Donovan: So, you have a ton of experience with helping out with kids learning trades, and, and things like that.
Lori: Well, mainly health care. So, I’m an uh, RN by trade, so I started teaching with the LPN Program which is the adult, nursing program License Practical Nursing. That was part time and I started with the high school students in ’97, and so that’s the health careers program, and it prepares for really any career in the healthcare field. They get their nurse aid, they get a bunch of healthcare certs, so they can hit the ground running and get in healthcare.
Donovan: Right, so that’s great stuff too- I mean, we need more nurses every day.
Lori: Indeed
Donovan: So, over the last twenty years-so, I don’t know, I feel like there’s been a little bit of a shift in the mentality of how people look at trades. So, if you would go back twenty years when you started this what do you think the mentality was back then or how people looked at trades. Do you think it’s different than today? I’ll let you speak to that.
Lori: I think it’s definitely changed. I did a lot of PR work for my program, so I would go into the high schools and I would talk about healthcare and there are varying levels of healthcare. So, you can get out iamb essentially have no education and be working in healthcare. You can get a two-year degree. You can get a four-year degree. So, the Career Center was kind of a hard sell because most of the counselors at that time were under the impression that most students need to go to four years of college to be able to come out and be successful in really any field, and you know, the healthcare field for sure. So, nowadays I’m seeing that counselors are a little bit more open to students maybe coming to the Career Center-and even higher-level academic students.
My daughter, in fact, started at Penn State Behrend in engineering, and decided to come to the precision metal program, her senior year to get some hands-on experience. So, she did that and you know was very successful and then was able to do an internship. The last two months of her senior year which really kind of opened up, you know, employment and she was able to get some hands-on experience as well.
Donovan: Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s something you typically won’t find in a standard education setting, you know, is that this hands-on experience. You can get internships, you can get placements, and we have some students here that have come from Mercer County Career Center. Now they’re working with us and they came through that same process where they started in, and now they’re actually working for us. But we can get to that in a minute. So, I also felt that way like, back in the nineties-maybe there was a, maybe a little bit of people looking down their nose at some trades.
Lori: A stigma, sure.
Donovan: There was a stigma about it. And I don’t know, I think our culture has seen a shift in which, trade jobs…I don’t think they are a low paying job anymore.
Lori: No.
Donovan: I think you can make a good living at it these days. I think it has become a little bit more of a, I don’t know, a field of people who are able to accomplish things with their skill and with their hands as…looked upon in a little bit of a higher light than it used to be.
Lori: Most definitely, and then you get out there and you are an entrepreneur and you start your own business. I mean, those are the people that are successful for this day in age.
Donovan: And you can do it when you go to a school like yours. You can do it with little to no debt because of the ability to start right out of high school with an education that’s provided by the county. Okay, so that’s where we were. Am I summing this up pretty good? You can speak more to it if I’m missing anything.
Lori: Well definitely, I think, and the counselors are the gate keepers for our, you know population at the career center. Ithink they’re a little more open to the fact that there is a success level with the students that come to the Career Center. I mean we’re placing them in jobs. They are making a good living, you know. The hours are good and like I said they are able to go on and possibly form their own business and become very successful.
Donovan: So that’s kinda this-where we are at right now with the trades. Where do you, you know as someone who’s seeing and you guys probably have a lot of knowledge on this. Where do you see the trades are gonna go in the future?Do you see them slipping backwards? What do you think the future of trades is gonna be?
Lori: Well, college is expensive. It really is and there is a definite need for people to be working in the trades. So, the jobs are there. We need to fill them, so I think it’s really important that we train and, you know, that’s where the jobs are – that’s where the money is.
Donovan: Are you guys still seeing a real uptick in job openings for thing? I mean like we have welders here in that.
Lori: Yeah. We, we couldn’t fill the job openings. I have a hiring board at the school and, you know, we don’t have enough students that were career ready to fill those positions.
Donovan: Let me get this right, you have more jobs right now than students that are able to fill them.
Lori: Correct.
Donovan: So, I mean that’s great. So, a student could come, come to the school, learn how to do a skill, come straight out of high school and you guys would move them directly into a job.
Lori: Most definitely. Now there are a lot of jobs that have pre-apprenticeship programs whereby those employers would, you know, continue their training on but, yeah, a lot of them are career ready.
Donovan: That’s great. I mean, that’s great in this day in age that you could move right out of high school and right into a good paying job too.
Lori: A good paying job, right.
Donovan: I know, uh, a lot of welders get into a shop where they have not only, you know, good pay, possibly full benefits, 401K. There’s a lot of those opportunities out there. And I think it’s great that you guys are able to help and get people on that path very early in life.
Lori: It’s rewarding. It really is. I enjoy it.
Donovan: Are you guys seeing anything with robotics or automation? Do you think that’s going to effect anything in the future?
Lori: Possibly, you know, we have people getting injured on the job, you know, you have back injuries, repetitive motion injuries, and technologies come a long way so I’m sure, we may have robots to fill some of those repetitive nature type of positions.
Donovan: That’s true yeah.
Lori: But, uh you know, we have to have maybe somebody to run that, so we do have two computer programing, and the one’s new, at the Career Center, so.
Donovan: So you guys are even on board for getting people ready for that?
Lori:Correct.
Donovan: That’s great. I know if you go back to one of our previous episodes we talked to a gentleman named Paul and he actually does robotic welding. So he handles that. So you could go back and listen to that episode at some point if you haven’t heard it out there, and he talked about how even though you have someone whose running that welding robot, you still need a welder who knows what that weld is supposed to look like. They might be there supervising a robot, or checking on a robot, but that person still needs to know what a welding is supposed to look like, what it’s supposed to do, so I think we are going to see some of these welders transition into supervising possibly two welding robots where they know what that weld is supposed to be like because they’ve done it themselves, and they have that knowledge and can speak from experience.
Lori: Sure, sure, you have to have that background and then you can move into the higher tech positions.
Donovan: Right, exactly, exactly. So, we’ve worked with you guys on a couple people who have come work for us. So, what’s that like? Tell me what that’s been like working with Imperial on getting some students in the Career Center.
Lori: Well I have to say, you guys are great as far as getting the students, you know, in here. I had a student. She was a female welder. So I called up and I said, “Hey,” you know, “she’s ready to go out,” and you guys were really gracious, you know. You made the transition really easy. You made my job easy. That was the good part. She was a little intimidated to come out into the work force, and she was actually thinking about, continuing her welding education after the Career Center. So, the counselor and I sat down and even the welding instructor said, “You’re ready, you, need to go out.” So she started here, and I guess she’s doing great things.
Donovan: Yeah, yeah, I think she’s fit in real well in the shop and I see a lot of people who are older, older guys in the shop who have been welding for a long time and they’ve really, not only her, but the other people from the Career Center that have come in, they take these young people and they…I think they have an appreciation for people their age coming in. They pull them under their wing and they want to make sure that they are doing a good job because it’s something that they’ve been doing their whole life, and I think they want the next generation to appreciate it as much as they do.
Lori: And that’s what it takes, and that’s so important. You’ve got to train them because those people will be retiring and we need a whole new crew.
Donovan: And that’s what you guys are doing, helping to get that next generation ready, to keep America moving and make it so we can still build things in America, so we can produce stuff here and we need the people to be able to do that with the knowledge and skills.
Lori: Definitely.
Donovan: That’s what you guys are doing out there at the Career Center. Is there anything else you want to share? Is there anything else you want to talk about at the Career Center.
Lori: Well, there are fourteen other programs. Any student that’s thinking their on the fence as far as a career, come visit us. Like I said, we have a range of different programs. We have the soft skills and we have what’s called the heavy shop with automotive, diesel, welding, etc, entrepreneurial. So, it’s a great way to explore different careers and just kind of get your feet wet and maybe it will branch out into something permanent.
Donovan: Yeah, that’s our hope. Lori, thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate you sharing your time and information with us about the Career Center and how students can get involved. How you guys are working to shape the future of a lot of working class Americans to get them on the right track, to making a good living and helping build our country.
Lori: Thank you for supporting us as well. We really appreciate having you in the community.
Donovan: Now we have joining us Avery Lockwood. How are you doing today Avery?
Avery: Pretty good. How about you?
Donovan: Good. Thanks for asking. So you actually are now working at Imperial, but you started at the Career Center, correct?
Avery: Yeah. I went there for two years, and I loved it there. I didn’t know if I wanted to go on to more schooling. I’ve been at Imperial for two months. I started doing co-op. My welding instructor knew I had it in me just to go straight into work instead of going on to more school.
Donovan: Now, co-op…that’s where you are still in school but they let you come to work for a little bit. Is that right?
Avery: Yeah, that’s where I go to my home school for the beginning of the day or even in the afternoon, however the school does it. Then I would go to work for the other half of the day.
Donovan: Do you feel that really helped you gain some confidence to be able to move into the working world?
Avery: It definitely helped me, because I got comfortable here before I started here full time. I mean, I could have kind of gone anywhere with it and then come here, but I’m glad I stayed here. I was comfortable with the people. I knew who the people were and that kind of stuff.
Donovan: So what’s your experience been like so far here at Imperial? How do you like it?
Avery: It’s pretty good. I’m definitely getting used to some of the stuff that I’ve never done before like driving the forklift or even the cranes. It’s simple stuff that I was never taught. I enjoy that.
Donovan: So, who is teaching you that here?
Avery: Kind of pretty much everybody. I mean, all the guys are extremely helpful. I can go up to any of them and they’re extremely supportive. I know how many times the guys have asked, “What got you into welding? You’re a girl. What got you into it?” I’m just like, “I don’t know. It wasn’t really anything. I just love getting my hands dirty and having fun with it.”
Donovan: I mean, was that it? Did you know somebody else that was a welder, or did you just decide this all on your own? Like, “This is something I want to do.”
Avery: I actually had a buddy of mine…me and my family have a pulling truck. So there’s this family friend, and he’s just like, “Hey, I’ve got to fix some stuff. Do you want to come try it out?” At that time, like three years ago, I had absolutely no clue what I wanted to do. My older sister was going to nursing school. My family kind of wanted to push me to go to more school, but I still had absolutely no clue. So I’m like, “Give it a try.” So I went and welded some stuff up for him on his pulling truck and he’s just like, “You actually have a pretty good knack for that,” and I’m like, “Okay, guess that’s my skill.” So that’s just what I started to pursue.
Donovan: And so far you’ve been enjoying it?
Avery: I’ve been enjoying it, yeah. Very much so.
Donovan: So what all do they have you doing here at Imperial? What are the welding tasks you’ve been given?
Avery: A lot of different positions, and how to weld. Normally at VoTech it’s just the same stuff. At VoTech you just did a little plate of whatever and then here it’s just absolutely everything. Like, I’ve done stock work. I’ve done stuff that is actually going to be shipped out. I’ve been enjoying it.
Donovan: How do you like actually seeing something turn into something?
Avery: That’s something I’ve actually seen myself be proud of because I’ve never really had to build anything and it goes somewhere else. It’s always just like you cut a piece and then you throw it away. So seeing something actually be put into something else and then it working out.
Donovan: Yeah, and I mean I think it’s neat. I’m not in your guy’s department. I don’t do the welding and fabricating. For me, I think it’s great that we’re building something that not only helps keep people safer, but keeps people healthier. I think it’s cool to see those go out the door, to see our equipment go out the door and know that it’s going to go to another place where it’s going to improve people’s lives. It’s not just the next cool thing that someone’s going to have or it’s going to wear out but it’s actually a safety thing that helps people feel that it’s going to be better and help other people who are welders and who are in the trades that it’s going to make their lives better and be healthy when they go home to their families at night. I really appreciate what you guys do out there and I think everybody out in the shop, including yourself just puts out a really great quality product. So, we’re super glad to have you on our team. Do you have anything else you want to say to anybody who is listening out there who is thinking about getting into welding, who is thinking about going to the Mercer County Career Center?
Avery: Just do it.
Donovan: Just do it?
Avery: If it’s something that you want to do, and even if you don’t even have any slight interest or anything before that experience, just try it out. I mean at the Career Center you don’t have to pay for anything. It’s not like schooling that you would have to go for two more years. Just do it.
Donovan: Just do it.
Avery: Just do it.
Donovan: Well, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it.
Donovan: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Today we have Grant Gilhousen from the Mercer County Career Center with us today. How are you doing Grant?
Grant: Good.
Donovan: Good. So, what’s your role over there at the Career Center?
Grant: I’m the lead welding instructor at the Career Center.
Donovan: So how long have you been over there doing that?
Grant: I just finished my eighth year and this upcoming year will be my ninth started.
Donovan: Wow. So you’ve got a little bit of experience…
Grant: Little bit, yeah.
Donovan:…bringing these young kids up in the trades.
Grant: I try to do my best.
Donovan: There you go. Well, we know you’re doing a good job because we’ve got a couple of them in the shop here and they’re doing a great job. You haven’t always been over at the school, right? Did you go to the school prior to teaching there?
Grant: No, I actually graduated from Franklin High School in Venango County. So, I went to Venango County VoTech for welding there.
Donovan: I got you. Then you moved into actually welding for bit?
Grant: Right. The day after graduation I started in the trades.
Donovan: Right into it?
Grant: Right into it.
Donovan: So you didn’t have to do any job searching or nothing. They got you right into it.
Grant: Yep.
Donovan: That’s interesting how that happens when you go to the trades. Sometimes you can start right out of high school making money in a good job. So how long were you there?
Grant: I started at Witherup Erection & Fabrication and I was there for probably six months or so and go laid off, went to another tank company, was there for another six months or so, got laid off. So, I knew I had to get something a little more stable. I went to work at Joy Mining Machinery in Franklin and I was there for five and half years until I started teaching.
Donovan: I have to imagine that time actually being out in the field, being at a couple locations, actually welding has to come into a huge part of being able to teach these young kids what it’s actually like out there in the real world.
Grant: It is. It’s nice to be able to tell them that if they’re doing something I’ll say, “You know, this isn’t going to fly in the real world, in a real shop. Those guys are going to eat you up if you act like you are.” That’s one thing you can actually tell them. That’s not going to work in the real world. You really have to have your head screwed on straight. Safety, horseplay – none of that will ever fly. As well as learning the little tricks and secrets from the older guys that have been there for years on years.
Donovan: That’s interesting. That’s a good point. You’re not just teaching these young people about the skills that they’e going to need but it’s about how to be safe in an environment, how to interact with others in an environment because in a shop it’s not just you. You’re usually working with a team or other people, right? That’s almost as much of a skill as actually welding.
Grant: You have to be able to communicate and work well with others. I tell them all the time. Those old boys in the shop, or women, they’re going to take you under their wing if they like you and they’re going to show you everything they know. If you don’t do that, those guys can make you look real bad real quick.
Donovan: So that’s great to know that if you go to the Mercer County Career Center you’re not just going to learn about welding, you’re going to learn about social interaction in the shop.
Grant: Right, soft skills.
Donovan: Soft skills.
Grant: A lot of soft skills in there too.
Donovan: That’s a new term for me. I’m going to keep it. I’m going to tell my kids at home that they have to learn some soft skills. That’s great. So, coming from working in the trades to where it is now. You started in probably 2007, working in the trades?
Grant: Yes, yeah.
Donovan: Now it’s 2021. How have you seen the transition from maybe the mentality of how people looked at the trades or how that interaction with what it meant to be a welder then and what it means to be one now. What’s been your journey been through that process.
Grant: Even whenever I was in school, if you went to VoTech you weren’t one of the smart kids and the people that stayed at the home school, they were the ones that were going to college to make all the money. It’s still the same mentality these days, but what’s funny is in the long run those people that don’t go to VoTech, that stay for their core classes and that, they’re usually the ones looking for a job and they’re however many thousands of dollars in debt. If you go to the VoTech or a trade school like that you can go right into work and start making your money. So, I mean there’s always that mentality that the people that are staying at the home school are going to be better in the long run but time and time again it shows that it’s not true.
Donovan: We’re around the same age and I can remember people saying, “Go to college. Go to college.” I think that mentality is actually driven a lot of people out of the trades and now we have this huge gap. We have this space where we need a lot of people to do this work and not a lot of people that know how to do it and not a lot of people with a lot of experience in it. So, its almost a deficit and it’s not helping our society. We need people who are going to come back and work in America and make American made products.
Grant: Right.
Donovan: I think that’s what you guys are doing over there. Not only have you helped teach the next generation to do it, you’ve been out doing it. So, there’s that gap. We were talking a little bit before we got on the camera here about how I think there has been a little bit of a shift in how people view what people used to work as factory work or welding work or that kind of stuff. I think it’s become a lot more of a respectable profession within our culture and community. It probably should have always been but we’re starting to see a little bit more people come around. Is that something you’re seeing with the young kids coming in, that they’re viewing it that way?
Grant: Yeah, I think that people are finally seeing that the trades are not a bad thing. It’s not the old dusty, gloomy look of the fifties and sixties. Things are a lot healthier nowadays. The pay is great in most situations. Everybody is trying to make things come back to America, you know, American made. The only way to do that is for people to go out and work in those industries.
Donovan: Do you think that’s going to be the future of where we see things going? You think we’re still going to see a need demand for skilled trade laborers?
Grant: I definitely think so, especially when every year more and more baby boomers are retiring and leaving the area. They might go down to Florida or something. We definitely need people to fill those spots. I mean I started whenever I got out of high school and started working. You could see the older generations guys go in flocks of ten or fifteen every year retiring. I’m sure it’s still like that, you know. You might have guys that are sixty and seventy years old retiring.
Donovan: It’s that crew of guys that’s been working together almost their whole career and when one of them goes they’re all about ready to go. Man, I can only imagine that it’s not only a big gap in the actual work force, but a gap in the knowledge that those guys have built over the years. These younger people being able to get in while those people are still there and gain as much as they can. You know, that’s another thing that’s really interesting about the trades. You can learn a lot of basic skills when you’re in school but once you’re on the job site like you’re saying that’s a continual education that you’re getting paid for. Your employer is like, “I want you to learn more and be better at your trade.” They’re willing to help basically take another person who has been there for a long time and say, “Mentor this young person,” because they know it’s good for them. Instead of you paying for that education, your employer is paying for it by continuing to help you along. I know that’s encouraged in our shop for the older guys to help the new people coming in to get them along because that’s just better for everybody in the long run. So, one of the things we always talk about is the health and shop environment. You know, we build dust collectors here, but I mean, I’m sure you’re probably seeing that hopefully there is less of a concern from young people coming in to the trades that there is a better, healthier environment to go work in. Is that a concern people are still having or do you see that that is something that is maybe going away?
Grant: Especially with welding, I think there is still the concerns, and, “Oh, you’re breathing in this and that.” Those are the people that have never stepped into a shop before, especially a newer age shop. It’s not like it was back in the fifties or sixties where you walk into a building and you can’t see the other end of it. Theres so much technology and smoke suckers and respirators and that now. Everything has been upgraded so much. Really, if you wear all your PPE there’s very minimal health concerns.
Donovan: So, if there’s a young person out there listening to this or if there are parents listening to this and they’re a little bit hesitant about their kid getting into the trades because of health hazards, I think, like you said, we’re getting better at that every day.
Grant: Everything has advanced so much, even since I’ve been in the shop working. I mean things have just been crazy how they’re advancing.
Donovan: Well, just as a closing thought here, do you have anything else if someone is out there listening to this and they’re thinking about getting into the trades or getting into welding, what would be some words of encouragement or anything you’d want to say to them as they’re trying to weigh what they should do with their future.
Grant: I think to anybody that is on the fence of going to a VoTech or a trade school or staying in their home school, think about the long run. Don’t think about…I mean, you’re going to have to make some sacrifices, obviously. You might not be able to do choir, or you might not be able to do band, or something like that, but think of it in the long run about what you can better do for yourself. I mean, you have the opportunity of a free education for a two or three year program through a VoTech that if you graduated and took the same type of program, a year and a half program at a satellite trade school somewhere, you’re looking at $20,000 at least. So, I mean $20,000 compared to maybe changing a couple classes or doing something different in high school to a better look into your future, to me that’s a definite benefit.
Donovan: To be able to come out of your high school career debt free with a skill under your belt ready to make some money and walk right into it, that is a big leg up these days.
Grant: Yes.
Donovan: Well, hey, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you taking a minute. We appreciate all the students you’ve taught over the last couple years and all the great work they do here. So, if you are out here listening, we just want to say stay healthy, stay safe. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Youtube , and Twitter and we’ll talk to you next time. Thanks.
Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Breathe better, work safer.
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